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Introduction - Hi!

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Sun, 07/21/2019 - 11:41
kfourcell
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The 3D Platform With Scenery Tiles And Green Army Men
The 3D Platform With 3D Scenery And Green Army Men

Hello;
My name is Kenneth and I'm a hopeful inventor/ entrepreneur and working on the next big thing in miniature tabletop boardgaming; but I have a problem, I'm not a boardgamer, yes I've played board games - in the past, but I'm not a "gamer". So to determine if my - idea is relevant to my target audience; namely, miniature tabletop boardgamers, I'm seeking as much feedback, advice and assistance - going forward.I'm hoping in the near future to put together a local group of gamers to further analyze and critique my invention in hopes to improving upon the design and concept.
What is my idea, my invention? For lack of a better name I call it The 3D Platform. The 3D Platform is a tabletop display style device with multiple vertically stacked - arrayed platforms. These platforms extends from an arm attached to a central post and revolves 360' in either direction; at the end of each of these arms is a 12 x 12 inch platform which rotates 360' in either direction. Each platform can be adjust up and down along the length of the post and then locked in place.
The concept, or idea of "The 3D Platform" is to create a device upon which miniature tabletop boardgamers can create and recreate their own custom 3D gaming environment regardless the style or type of game or miniatures that are use. From my study of RPG and similar games, all games have an element of three dimensional movement; but the problem is that these games are played on a two dimensional surface.
It is for this reason I created "The 3D Platform" I built a proof of concept now all I need is a small group of individual from my target audience to help me test it.
So, I've come here to seek your guidance and wisdom.

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Sun, 07/21/2019 - 20:47
#1
questccg
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My personal advice (and I'm not being an a-hole)

Is that you will need to DESIGN "your own game" to work with the 3D space. Aside from 3D chess played in the Star Trek movies... I don't KNOW of any POPULAR 3D board games. And it's probably because no such playing surface has/was available to designers.

My personal advice is simple: Hold a CONTEST, reward the winner with $100, Runner up $50 and 2nd Runner up $25... and be done with it.

If people can't create innovative designs to be used with the "device", well then you're probably are NOT going to go far. So you're spending $175 dollars and you are going to get a bunch, IDK maybe 20 to 50 game ideas for your "device". It's like a TON of ideas for a relatively small reward.

Go on BGG, talk with the Admins and tell them you want to have a Design Contest. From there you can explain WHY (your "device") and that you will reward the contestants with some small prizes as a token for their participation.

I don't think you'll get much better advice TBH.

You can sit around and wait for people to tell you "it's not a good idea" or you can CHALLENGE people to see what can be done with it... And walk away with a bunch of NEW and innovative ideas.

Cheers and best of luck(!?) with it (the "device").

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Sun, 07/21/2019 - 20:54
#2
questccg
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And from a MARKETING "Look" angle

I would make the "device" all "BLACK". White makes you think of patio furniture or standing fans. If you took the time to design one in BLACK ... it would look WAY COOLER (TBH). Less intrusive from a "visual" perspective.

Some things look good in white, some things look BETTER in black.

I personally think your "device" would be more appealing if it was black.

Cheers!

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Sun, 07/21/2019 - 21:02
#3
questccg
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To help you out some more...

Because this is a "Game Thing" ... instead of giving the finalists $$$, you could give them "The Game Crafter" (TGC) gift cards as prizes. This could maybe help JT and co. to "promote" the contest to their repertoire of Designers... TGC often hold contests ... so speaking with them, you might have a venue if BGG doesn't work out.

I'm not sure about all the rules and regulations (policies) BGG has but I do know they do have rules for all kinds of stuff ... So maybe you could see if JT would be interested in holding a contest or not.

Another avenue to pursue!

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Sun, 07/21/2019 - 21:41
#4
questccg
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Just so we understand each other

questccg wrote:
My personal advice is simple: Hold a CONTEST, reward the winner with $100, Runner up $50 and 2nd Runner up $25... and be done with it...

If people can't create innovative designs to be used with the "device", well then you're probably are NOT going to go far. So you're spending $175 dollars and you are going to get a bunch, IDK maybe 20 to 50 game ideas for your "device". It's like a TON of ideas for a relatively small reward.

... And walk away with a bunch of NEW and innovative ideas.

I'm not suggesting you STEAL "ideas". What I am suggesting is an easy way to get "Game Designers" interested in the idea... And then you can make arrangement to promote their games (for your "device") and you could maybe even work some of them (not necessarily finalists) but other ideas for other audiences ...

I'm suggesting working with OTHER "Game Designers" and build a pool of games "compatible" with the "device". Ideally the games should be possible to play on a NORMAL table and using the "device" for an ENHANCED experience...

Something like that!

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 08:30
#5
let-off studios
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Go for a Contest

Welcome back, Kenneth!

I like questccg's idea of a BGG contest. Chances are better there when it comes to hearing from your target audience, and whether or not this is a project worth pursuing.

As for other games that make use of multiple levels, the only one I can think of right now is Chopper Strike:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2446/chopper-strike

Best of success with your project, Kenneth!

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 08:37
#6
kfourcell
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Reply to - My personal advice (and I'm not being an a-hole)

questccg;
No, you're not being an A-hole and thanks for the reply. I have a prototype - a proof-of-concept; or at least that's what I'm calling it. I'm looking for a group of gamers from my area so as to test out my idea, but because I myself am not a gamer and am ignorant, I'm having trouble locating and engaging them. Am I in the wrong forum?

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 08:42
#7
kfourcell
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Reply to - And from a MARKETING "Look" angle

I use white PVC, but I could use black PVC; but for now it is a prototype a proof-of-concept, once I have a group put together and gather enough data, opinions and such; I will consider this in the next prototype design.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 08:48
#8
kfourcell
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Reply to - To help you out some more...

I'm still in the design and testing phase, hell I don't even know if there is a market for my idea, though I believe those who play dungeon crawlers could be interested; but I have to wait and see. Which is why I want to connect with a small group of local gamers, to meet with them, have then play with the device, to get there feedback; and then decide how to proceed from there.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 08:54
#9
kfourcell
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Reply to - Just so we understand each other

Oh, yea; I understand, I was considering holding a dungeon crawl style game and get the help of a DM/GM to run it and off a $100. reward for the last-man(player) standing. So we're on the same page. The data, info I would receive from the players would be invaluable for the future development of my device.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 08:59
#10
kfourcell
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Reply to - Go for a Contest

let-off studios;
Thanks for your feedback and yes questccg idea is one I'm considering, yet right now I looking at a more of a meet-and-greet approach - no, a focus group. Was that right; well, close enough.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 12:56
#11
Jay103
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Selling a device that other

Selling a device that other people would use as a component in a game is a hard thing to do.. it's not a GAME, so who would buy it? Are you hoping to license this to someone? I know you've posted here before about it, but I can't recall if you patented the idea or not.

Quest's contest idea is a good one, though you'd have to advertise it somewhere.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 13:34
#12
questccg
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2 Choices

Jay103 wrote:
...Quest's contest idea is a good one, though you'd have to advertise it somewhere.

That's why you really have 2 choices:

1> Do it yourself on BGG once you have the rules figured out from the Admins.

2> Do it with the help of The Game Crafter.

And CONTESTS on either of these websites is common. For TGC there is this large-st board:

https://www.thegamecrafter.com/publish/product/LargeSquareBoard

It's 10" x 10" (a bit smaller than your 12" x 12" but I believe that's ok. Like I said what you'd want is to design a game that could be played with or without the "device" (if possible).

If TGC accepts your request to JUDGE the contest, well I'm sure JT would welcome the rewards as being TGC gift cards. And TGC will advertise the contest on their website, social media (Facebook, Twitter) and therefore you could have the right type of "designers" for this type of contest.

And specifically you NEED a "special" kind of designer: a spec designer. What that means is that the designer is capable of designing with certain "requirements" for the design.

Anyway I know you've posted here a little while back while perfecting your "device". Don't waste your time, get a contest going ASAP so that you'll see if anyone can design "3D" games for it.

Cheers!

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 14:13
#13
questccg
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Some additional ideas

kfourcell wrote:
...I'm having trouble locating and engaging them. Am I in the wrong forum?

You could look at Meetup.com to see if there are any groups in Brooklyn, NY. Look for the meetups in your area. That's one way to reach out to groups who may be local to you.

The other option is going to a FLGS: Friendly Local Game Store.

I'm sure there must be a Magic: the Gathering or a Board Game Store in your area (or at least nearby).

From a FLGS, they can refer you to either they hold Game Nights or know of some groups that get together...

And no you are not in the WRONG "forum". I'm just replying to your immediate concerns. So Meetup.com and one or more FLGSs. That's two (2) additional ways to reach out to local group of Gamers.

First thing is to find "Gamer" groups... And then maybe you can CONNECT with a "design" group. But from my experience, why I am on BGDF is because locally there aren't any "GROUPS" per se. There are a couple of designers here-and-there but not groups that gather locally.

This is an alternative to the Contest. But I still think the Contest is the better direction to go in. This will give you concrete ideas that could be applied to your "3D device".

Regards.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 14:35
#14
questccg
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The thing that worries me is...

Well your "device" is BIG! It's going to take a lot of room to box and ship. That's not good and a bit of a concern. If you could PACKAGE your "device" and have separate games for it (in their own boxes) then that could be real COOL.

In the stores, the games could be in regular boxes ... And from an online store you could sell the "device" direct to consumers.

So I think DIVIDING "device"/games for it is the way to go! And all you really need is the WEBSITE you sell your device on and put that on the back of each "compatible" game.

Cheers!

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 14:42
#15
questccg
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And I have a MINIATURES idea for your "device"!

The only problem is that it requires IP ... which I don't have access too. But I'm going to check around Fantasy Flight Games (FFG) website to see what would be possible.

I won't "spill the beans" just yet... But I DO have an IDEA!

I'll check FFGs website for the information that I am looking for. And I will get back to you SOON!

Best.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 14:51
#16
questccg
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Oh well not what I was looking for...

FFG does have some products but the way they "categorize" and split/divide their games is just not what I was looking/hoping for. The products don't have a "collection" of miniatures.

Okay so about MY IDEA: "Star Wars — Blockade"!

Three (3) levels... On the TOP LEVEL are the Empire "Destroyers" and I would have a SPACE board as the "Destroyers" are "blocking" supplies from coming to the planet... And blocking ships from leaving the planet. A Rebel "Corvette" makes it's entry at a certain period of time (x:00 minutes or y rounds ... TBD).

On the MIDDLE LEVEL there would be TIE FIGHTERS and REBEL SHIPS in the ATMOSPHERE board for the planet ... And there could be spaceship battles there ... between fighters.

On the BOTTOM LEVEL there would be troops on both sides: Empire and Rebel. And this board would be a PLANET board (could have different environments like snow from Hoth or sand from Tatooine).

It's just ONE (1) IDEA! But I think it's kind of cool... Would definitely work with 3 LEVELS of your "device"!

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 16:50
#17
Jay103
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And the Star Wars license

And the Star Wars license should be super easy to get, too!

;)

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 17:21
#18
questccg
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About Star Wars!

Jay103 wrote:
And the Star Wars license should be super easy to get, too!

Well for one thing... It doesn't need to be called: "Star Wars - Blockade" it could be "knock-off" name like "Spacewars - Blockade". And then you don't need to use "Star Wars" miniatures either. Just have OTHER designed space ships like a "Frigate" (Large transport) vs. a "Carrier" (another large transport). Next you would need to design all the smaller starships... But I think you get the idea!

I've pitched Lucas Arts (before the buyout) before. And they told me that they don't accept "outside material" or proposals and shot me down. It was for an AMAZING "Star Wars" game where you ACTUALLY could control an empire of 10,000,000 troops (Factual)! If was to be an GIGANTIC MMO real-time strategy game.

It took 2 months to design the game (a proposal document) with all kinds of research into the "Star Wars" universe. The game would have used "advisors" to automate tasks at various levels as you went up the game's ladder. It was more than a question of points, as I have already mentioned the principle behind the game is you start off SMALL and control a single city on one of the worlds being competed for. And then you grow to control several cities, then you fight opposing cities on your world to try to "conquer" the planet... Once you got to a certain level, you would have the option to let the AI control that planet with other players and allow you to move to another world/planet.

It was the BOMB! The top-most level of the game ... You'd be in control of 10,000,000 troops across several planets/worlds and you goal would be to try to conquer and control them from your opponents.

The document was a 16 page document describing how one goes from one city to control entire planets/worlds.

Star Wars - Galactic Frontier

I'm sharing the "confidential" (now Public) document... Don't worry, I'm sharing it because of all the months of hard work put into the document in revealing all the details about the game (including approximations), etc.

Feel free to read it... (This is an aside - sorry not hi-jacking your thread!)

Note #1: I even had a network contact (Charles) who had playtested games for Lucas Arts. I thought for certain they would give the game at least a CHANCE... But I guess the devs or legal didn't care about Charles playtesting experience. Nor how AWESOME the game could be!

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 18:31
#19
kfourcell
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Reply to - Selling a device that other

I've seen many game components for gamers to use to enhance game play, my device is along that line. My target audience are miniature gamers. As for as a patent, no. I'm on disability and I have no income what money I had and borrowed was used in numerous attempts a securing a patent. As far as a Quest contest, i'll look into it, but I still want to play first.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 19:00
#20
kfourcell
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Reply to - 2 choices

As before I would like to test the market through a small group, a focus group or a play test group before venturing forward; and at the moment connecting with any local players is my only true barrier.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 19:01
#21
questccg
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If you can't design games ... don't make assumptions!

kfourcell wrote:
My target audience are miniature gamers.

Well actually you should let the "Game Designers" figure out the "target audience". If you made a contest on "The Game Crafter", you'd probably see more "3D GAMES" as opposed to miniatures. Why? Because TGC doesn't do minis... Their Game Designers make GAMES. And that's why I suggested this platform because those designers would create NEW kind of games with layers or levels (however you want to look at it).

Quote:
As far as a Quest contest, i'll look into it, but I still want to play first.

What do you mean by "play first"??? I'm confused now. Because I thought you didn't know any "Game Designers"?!?! We're trying to find ways of getting your "device" out in the market. And what your device needs is games made for it... Quality games made by clever designers! That's why I don't see what "playing" has to do with "designing"?! Are you saying you want to PLAY before JUDGING??? I think the way it works is you choose a "short list" based on the game descriptions. Then the semi-finalists make their games and you get to TRY those games. Lastly the finalists are the best of the best (chosen by YOU) and rewarded prizes...

Something to that effect...

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 19:06
#22
kfourcell
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Reply to - Some additional ideas

I seriously considering a starting a Meetup, yet as I mention before money is limited and they want $16. plus for one month. No pain - No gain. I'm currently residing in the Bronx, and I have no interest in traveling to Brooklyn; where a lot of gaming groups seem to be meeting, I did stop by Hex&co a couple of times, but. . .

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 19:21
#23
questccg
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Not the way it works...

kfourcell wrote:
...I'm currently residing in the Bronx, and I have no interest in traveling to Brooklyn; where a lot of gaming groups seem to be meeting, I did stop by Hex&co a couple of times, but...

Well you need to travel to where those groups meet! If you say things like: "I don't want to go there... because it's far." Well then most likely you'll never go ANYWHERE with your idea! I don't have many Game Designers in my community (locally) and so I communicate with most online. But I've tried to go to some meetups and found that nobody was there?! Go figure. It took about 3 tries going to different places to where I found a regular group.

But I don't attend very much because they like to PLAY. I like to DESIGN.

So sometimes when I have something worthy of playtesting, I go to the group. And usually can find 2 to 4 people to play.

But if you go with the lousy attitude that you don't want to go places because they are further from your home. Well we can't help you with that. That's your personal choice. If all the groups are in Brooklyn and you are not... Well you've got to be REALISTIC. People are not going to come to you... You've already told us, you have no games for your "device". Gamers want to play GAMES. You've got 0 games for your "device" ... What are they going to play???

You're restricting yourself to your community (Bad), you don't have any of your own game ideas (Bad), you think it's a minis product only (Bad)... And the list gets worst and worst. Try to become a bit more flexible and work out these issues...

Otherwise your "device" will never go anywhere in the market. Sorry for the "bad news" but you need to go where people are and not expect everyone to come to you!

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 19:21
#24
questccg
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Please ignore!

[*** Double Post ***]

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 19:24
#25
kfourcell
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Reply to - Some additional ideas

This is a proof of concept, a early prototype, and like all prototype design it will go through several stages of change. Once I have a group together, and receive some favorable feedback I plan to start a kickstarter to raise funds to hire a prototype to help modify the design. Baby steps, baby steps.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 19:38
#26
questccg
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Why ask for advice when you already want to do things your way?!

kfourcell wrote:
This is a proof of concept, a early prototype, and like all prototype design it will go through several stages of change.

That's fine... But YOU have 0 games for it! It can change as many times as your socks... It's not going to help you get more games for it.

Quote:
Once I have a group together, and receive some favorable feedback I plan to start a kickstarter to raise funds to hire a prototype to help modify the design. Baby steps, baby steps.

I think you've already have your own way of thinking ... And you expect people to come to you. It doesn't work like that. Why are designers going to go to YOU, when you can't go to where GAMERS meet???

Anyways good luck(!?) with your "device", I've given you enough advice...

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 19:39
#27
let-off studios
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Contest

kfourcell wrote:
Baby steps, baby steps.
I agree. As far as I know, it doesn't take any money to contact BGG and ask to run some sort of design contest (and no travel involved, either!).

You never know who might crawl out of the woodwork to attempt a design, and you never know who might be watching your project's development.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 19:56
#28
kfourcell
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Reply to - And I have a MINIATURES idea for your "device"!

Ok, okay; we're clear that my device, a physical device, a tabletop display style device for playing with existing miniature and miniature games that could be played with pre-existing rules or rule on choose to make up. This device was design for players who wants to create their own unique interactive three dimensional environment, a three dimensional environment that they can create; re-create and change as they see fit. This is done by adding any style of grid maps (square or hex), whether they are hand drawn or preprinted, scenery tiles and 3D scenery props to the several levels so instead of moving in a linear fashion across a flat two dimensional surface players (with miniatures) can now literally go up level by level and explore that level and choose to move up to another level or down to a previous level.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 20:08
#29
kfourcell
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Reply to - Oh well not what I was looking for...

My device would leave the choice as to how you use it up to you. You choose, what goes where and why. The 3D Platform is the point of contention; its set in the middle or corner of the battlemat. Both side race across the mat toward the object of their desire - no plant; this is a space battle. Both sides converge at the 3D Tower, the area of the blockade; each platform represent a separate spatial plane, ship are in close quarter combat and ships can attack from any direction. You can't do this in two dimension, but my device will take miniature combat to a whole new level.

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Mon, 07/22/2019 - 20:11
#30
kfourcell
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Reply to - And the Star Wars license

First things first, let's establish a market first.

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