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Self publication detail log

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slam
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Hello,

I'm in the midst of putting together a new small (100-200) game run of a new game, called Marvin Marvel's Marvelous Marble Machine, as well as assembling some of the other games I have in the Pair-of-Dice line. Anyway, to give people an idea of what's involved in a do-it-yourself operation, here's the running mental diary of the things I have to do before I can call a game published.

Packaging (Have tubes, need maybe a few more. Or get new boxes custom printed and scrap tubes? To do this would require figuring out how to make one box appropriate for multiple games. Use stickers and stamps on a generic box like Penguinas, a new German small print game?

Current tubes need three small stickers each to augment packaging. I already have these, can buy more as needed. Also, inside, need small plastic bags for game pieces. For Marble Game, need small cloth bags. Bought 150 from papermart.com at $.56 per bag. Best price? Not sure.)

Boards (Have used felt cloth boards in the past, will switch to vinyl boards for this game, as it needs more detail on printing. Bought 5 yards of white upholstery vinyl, need to find tailor to cut this into 13.5" x 14.5" squares. Quantity is estimated to be about 120. After cutting, I'll need to bring this to silkscreeners along with eps artwork of board for printing.

Dice (Will probably have to buy a few more dice as dice bought for Knockabout/Warp 6 are a bit low. May opt for marble styled dice for theme of Marble Game. May be a bit pricey due to small quantity desired.)

Pieces (Each game requires 60 printed tokens. These are made by buying small wooden disks (7/8") from caseyswood.com, then printing symbols on 3/4 circular" labels, bought online (forgot where). I will have to stick each label onto a token, since to enclose a whole sheet then roll them up into a tube would likely ruin the token sheet.

Printed material (Each game will have 4 pages of rules. Will probably try to print at local Mail Boxes etc. Consider buying laserprinter/fax machine/copier combo for $350 which will do for small copying jobs. Otherwise use Mail Boxes etc for .04 a copy with prepaid copy card. Buy reams of colored paper for brochures. Each game also needs brochure and giveaway origami die giveaway. Make sure I have most up to date copy of each. Redesign brochure.)

Art (Commission artist to draw some illustration for packaging).

Web site should be updated to reflect new game offering. New web site pages needs to be made. After game is published, some publicity needs to be done to get some attention. Go to places that previously have noted our games.

Game Play (Could use a little more play testing to test a few final ideas. Convene game test session. Try to find people who haven't played to see if they can teach themselves via rules only.)

* Other Games: Need to find wooden hexagonal tiles for new "Hex Nut" idea, as well as create a rubber stamp to use as packaging, along with cloth bags. Need to get more white D8 dice for Warp 6/Knockabout, as initial order is low.

Anyway, for those who wanted to know what it takes to do it yourself, this is a partial list of the details involved. I'm sure there's more that I haven't included but will think of later.

Dralius
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Self publication detail log

Thanks for this post. I am not able to get to the chat sessions easily and feel like i often miss this sort information about how designers go about making their products. This post is especially important in that i don't have the money to do runs of more than a few hundred games. I am looking forward to your update on this subject.

phpbbadmin
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Thanks Slam

I appreciate your posting of the log, and I hope you can update it often. It looks like the majority of the work is hustle, hustle, hustle.

Thanks for the insight!
-Darke

Anonymous
Self publication detail log

Sounds like you're doing your homework.

What is your current unit cost to produce the game... and what is your proposed MSRP?

Also, I'm curious as to your sales venue... direct to consumer via web? Through gamestores but direct to them?... or through distribuition?

...I've been at this a while... but I learn something new every day, and am interested in seeing how this comes together for you. I'm fairly certain that I'll learn a new trick or two :-).
XXOOCC

slam
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Self publication detail log

I sell the current games, whose components are a board and dice, for $13.95 to $14.95. It cost around half that for the components.

I sell it off my web site, www.pair-of-dice.com, which uses paypal. Since I got lucky and got games in the Games 100 issue of GAMES, I could have gotten my games in stores via fulfillment houses if I were to commit to getting it professionally made. That was too much of a commitment for me, though.

Anonymous
Self publication detail log

Nice list. Good overview of all the necessary items.

Did you ever find the wooden hex tiles that you mentioned you were looking for? I'm looking for some too.

Alternatively, I could go for hex tiles like Settlers of Catan
Anyone have any ideas on where to look for some cheaper hex tiles? Clearly Mayfair is wayyyyyyy too much. If I went to a printer, where would I start looking to get quotes? Anyone have any online links to printers capable of hexes like that?

Cheers,
Jay

slam
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Self publication detail log

Nope. Closest I got was a clay artisan who should do them for $1 an inch, and a plastics company that would make custom pieces affordably if I did them in large quantities. $400 for the initial mode, then 8 cents per piece, or something in that neighborhood.

How many do you need? If it's a lot, maybe we could order together.

I've had bolts of cloth in my car for weeks, waiting to be cut. Had a playtest session last weekend which was very helpful in proofing my printed rules.

Anonymous
Self publication detail log

Slam,

I'd be happy to go in with you on hex tiles. I could use about 2000-5000 blank tiles for prototypes.

How many do you think we'll need to get in total for a decent price?

Cheers,
Jay

slam
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Jay, if we both order 5,000, it comes out to 12 cents per tile, which is acceptable for me. That's $600 each, before shipping. I'm located in Boston. How about you?

The dimensions I asked about were 3/4" across and 1/4 inch thick, but the size is flexible for me. Our chips would have to be the same size.

I need two colors. I don't know if they'll charge more if we ask more than one color.

Anonymous
Self publication detail log

Slam,

Looks like we want two different things. I need tiles like Settlers of Catan, Twilight Imperium, or Kings & Things. Those tiles are about 3 inches across and about as thick as matboard.

Cheers,
Jay

slam
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Yep, looks like it. Too bad.

In other news, I've come up with a packaging idea. Selling games in school folders. The game will be printed on letter sized label sheets, then stuck to the inside of a manila folder. The pieces will be put into those pouches that kids use to put pencils. Why not? It holds everything, it's cheaper than a box and better than a tube. I'm thinking that that could be the way to package a chocolate factory game I'm working on.

slam
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Self publication detail log

Wow, I'm glad this topic survived the recent hack.

I've now printed up copies of the Marble Game board on felt. I meant to do it on vinyl, but it accidentally got switched with another order of mine. As it turns out, I didn't mind it on felt when I saw it printed, so I'm OK with it. So I can announce the Marble Game as available when I want.

I've also worked out how to print up Truffle Shuffle packaged in three ring binders, with the board printed in color on letter sized label sheets stuck to the inside of manila folders. The game pieces will be put in those pencil pouches that grade school children have.

But, I'm thinking about two upgrades. Custom boxes and custom bandana printing.

The bandana printing site is here:

http://www.bandanaman.com/Custom_Printing/custom_screen_printing.htm

And the prices seem reasonable (as little as $1.10 per bandana). It'd take me some redesigning and simplifying of the Truffle Shuffle board to make it printable with this process, but the other games should be fine. I'm worried that the material might be too thing and that it'd be hard to move the pieces around on them, but I'll have to find that out.

The second upgrade would be custom printed boxes. I found a Canadian company called Metro Paper Box Limited [(905) 356-9051] that gave me a quote for custom printed boxes that are 8" x 8" x 1.5" that would be $0.93 Canadian if I supplied the printed paper to them and ordered 1,000. (Their minimum is 250 copies, which is great. I could make a generic company box cover with spaces for labels for each game. I do have to find a printer for the box covers, but this seems to kick the ass of packaging the games in tubes.

Anonymous
Self publication detail log

I have seen other companies use bandanas for game boards before. It turns out OK and the packaging could be even simpler than a box. Looney Labs (I think) has a bandanna chess/checkers board that they package in a plastic bag (no parts). Sounds like you could do something like that and use a simple card insert with product info (you could even print them yourself if you have a halfway decent color printer).

slam
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Self publication detail log

My boards for The Marble Game are back from the silkscreener. They actually messed it up a bit, and printed it on the red felt while printing a reprint of Knockabout on vinyl. As a result, it's a bit too small. I'm definitely switching to bandana printing next time.

Other news: One of my games is now available to play online. ccgworkshop contacted me a while back and I've taken them up on their offer to make a web version. I theoretically get paid for plays, but I don't expect anything from it financially. It looked cool, though, although I haven't had a chance to get on a PC to play it yet.

http://www.ccgworkshop.com/game.jsp?id=RSP

Anonymous
Self publication detail log

Where can you go to get punch out sheets made? You'd have to provide the art, and I suppose some formal definition for where the cuts need to be. Do they simply make a metal die to punch the cardboard in a single motion like a jigsaw puzzle?

slam
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ekted-

I don't know. I make tokens by using wooden disks and small round labels.

BTW, because of the silkscreeners mistakenly swapping the two types of fabric, the playing area of The Marble Game is just a touch too small. Playable, but only barely. The bandanas should definitely be an improvement.

slam
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Self publication detail log

Time for an update: "The Marble Game" is going to be reviewed in the May 2005 issue of GAMES Magazine.

Dralius
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Self publication detail log

That’s great! Be sure you have plenty of copies in stock. It could mean a sudden burst of sales for you.

Brykovian
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Self publication detail log

That's awesome, slam!

-Bryk

slam
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Self publication detail log

Dralius wrote:
That’s great! Be sure you have plenty of copies in stock. It could mean a sudden burst of sales for you.

I know. I am woefully unprepared for this. I may have to take days off of work to assemble copies.

IngredientX
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Self publication detail log

slam wrote:
Dralius wrote:
That’s great! Be sure you have plenty of copies in stock. It could mean a sudden burst of sales for you.

I know. I am woefully unprepared for this. I may have to take days off of work to assemble copies.

We should be all cursed with such "problems." :)

slam, I never reply to your posts, but I am a fan of your games, and it's great to see that you're doing well. Congratulations and good luck with your new games!

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