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Help with game mechanic please!

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 15:47
Westmaas
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medusa win conditions

Hi there! I'm almost done creating my new game, it's an abstract strategy game called Medusa. 2 players alternate placing gems down on a hex board, and there are a few ways to win
1. make a straight line of 6
2. make a circle/hex of 6 gems
3. make a continuous unbroken line of your gems from one of coloured sides to the another one
4. Capture 6 pairs of your opponents gems. Capture occurs when your opponent has two gems in a row, with one of yours on one of the ends. By placing another gem on the other end, you bracket or 'bookend' their two pieces, thereby capturing and removing them.

My question is this: Being the name of Medusa, I wanted to incorporate the idea of turning your pieces opponents to 'stone', preferably when they are captured (but any idea is fine). I'm not sure what that would do, perhaps their pieces are removed and two grey disks are put in its place, and nobody can move there anymore? But that doesn't seem advantageous for the person who did the capturing.

I'm open to any ideas of how to incorporate a turning to stone idea. No idea is too radical, even if it means changing win conditions, or a new way to win or whatever. I would just really like to have this mechanic in the game so that it ties in with the theme a little. Thank you!!

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 16:01
#1
chris_mancini
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You could flip the tokens

You could flip the tokens upside-down, with each having a grey side to reflect the stone theme. This could become both advantageous and troublesome to players, as removing one opponent's discs from play may also block you from possible moves. Perhaps players may then "push" stone tokens one space in any direction to open up pathways? Or, players may stack a token on top of a stone token, effectively taking their spot? Perhaps tokens stacked on top of stone tokens cannot themselves be turned to stone?

As Medusa turns people to stone when they meet her gaze, perhaps there is also the element of "facing" the hex pieces? Two next to one another would only turn one to stone if 2 "facing" sides of each hex are pointing towards one another...maybe over-complicating things, but I'm just looking for a way to tie in the mythos.

Perhaps there is a Medusa token, similar to The Robber from Catan, that moves independently, or at the command of a particular player when they meet a particular in-game condition? She can be positioned anywhere on the outer ring of spaces, and the row in which she is facing turns all tokens on that row to stone...I have a game I've long been developing with a similar mechanic; whereby a "Witch" character can be moved around the city streets on the board and affects the street down which she faces. This would make a lot of sense for the Medusa theme; especially if players can manipulate her movements!

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 16:22
#2
Westmaas
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WHoa! Amazing suggestions my

WHoa! Amazing suggestions my friend, I love them! The idea about flipping the tokens to reveal the grey side - I thought about that as well, and how players could play on top of that stone token. I was discouraged because I felt that it would lead to tokens getting stacked until infinity, but your point about capping it after the next token is played makes sense.

The thought about 'pushing' the stone never crossed my mind, that's fantastic. I'd like to think about that further and see where that could lead - would pushing the stone replace your move for putting a new gem on the board? Does a stone still belong to any certain player, or does it become a 'unisex' piece - and if so, would pushing a stone into another stone cause it to be stacked up?

I love the idea of the Medusa token. I'm not sure what would cause it to move, whether it be a players move or an in-game condition... but the idea of it facing a row and causing all gems to become stone would be really cool. Should there be a way of reversing the stone effect, or would that get too confusing?

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 16:34
#3
chris_mancini
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For the Medusa token

For the Medusa token mechanic, perhaps the effect lasts only as long as she faces that row; when she moves or looks away, the tokens are again flipped back into play? Otherwise this concept may be way overpowered if the effect is permanent. That's how I utilized this similar mechanic in my game; the effect only lasts for as long as the Witch token "faces down that street."

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 16:34
#4
questccg
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I have some ideas for you!

Make it that the tiles have two (2) sides: Colored and Grey.

Make the Medusa controlled by each player on their turn bu using a custom d6 (having Blank,Blank,1,1,2,2). Medusa, inverts all tiles to grey in that "row".

Give each player three (3) moves per turn. As such a player can "invert" up to three (3) tiles per turn (from Grey to Colored).

But can only play one (1) NEW colored tile onto the board per turn. And this tile must be adjacent to another tile (Colored or Grey).

To win, you must have all "colored" tiles as connecting to the opposing sides of the board. I would drop the row and circle (6 tiles versus 12 or more in the connecting).

Something along those lines...

Note: There become a bit of a memorization game especially if you have "intertwining" grey stones... You could possibly flip an OPPONENT's tile instead of your own.

I like this because it adds a bit of variance to the game and adds a memory component/mechanic to the game...

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 16:39
#5
Westmaas
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Yeah that could work, the

Yeah that could work, the Medusa token itself could be double sided - one side has her eyes closed, and the other is wide open with a deathly glare. That way, the token can move around with eyes closed, and when triggered (not sure how) it flips and everything in her line of sight turns to stone, and turned back when she closes her eyes...

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 16:51
#6
Westmaas
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QuestCCG: I like everything

QuestCCG: I like everything you said, and I agree with the memorization aspect of the game... because once it becomes stone, you have to remember which one was actually yours underneath. You may flip the wrong one and give your opponent a winning combo lol.

So you're saying simply just use the connecting sides for the only win condition? That could be good and simplify things, but I wonder if stalemates would become too easy perhaps

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 16:59
#7
questccg
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Exactly!

The reason that I'm suggesting to drop the ROW and CIRCLE are two-folds. Let me explain... And then you can see what works best for your game:

1. The Medusa: She FLIPS in a ROW ALL of the colored tokens. That a real b!tch (literally and figuratively) because it means that your entire row of colored tokens would be turned to stone (if she lines up with your row).

2. Tile count: The other issue is that it appx. takes 12+ tiles to connect BOTH sides. But the circle and row only 6 tiles. It is my gut feeling that those two would be too easy to get as opposed to trying to connect both sides.

Given that you can FLIP (restore from stone 3 tiles per turn) stone tiles, that means it would only take 2 turns to flip either the row or circle from stone versions of the winning condition.

With the connection, it's a bit harder to predict... Maybe 1 turn or maybe 3 turns... It depends how "strategically" you build you connecting segment to both sides...

Again just ideas, feel free to use what you like and what you don't. Cheers!

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 17:01
#8
Jay103
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A lot of good ideas.. I'd say

A lot of good ideas.. I'd say be careful about adding too much "stuff" to an abstract strategy game, so whatever Stone Rule you end up with, keep it straightforward...

Medusa is also a form of jellyfish. That's what I thought you meant at first!

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 18:10
#9
Westmaas
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QuestCCG: Very very

QuestCCG: Very very interesting. I see what you mean about a 6 formation perhaps becoming too easy to obtain in that setting. With a connection, it will allow the game to breathe a bit before someone gets into a victory setup. Very cool and will have to work on testing this immediately!

One thing I have to inquire about is your idea for a die-controlled Medusa Token. You mentioned blank,blank,1,1,2,2 as the sides - does that indicate how many tokens you can flip on a turn? Or how many spaces it can move?

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 18:15
#10
Westmaas
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Jay103: Yeah I absolutely

Jay103: Yeah I absolutely agree. Mancini's Medusa Token idea is great and works well with the other suggestions posed, just have to limit the rules of the stones so it's simple and attractive. Reducing the win conditions is a good start.

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 18:22
#11
Westmaas
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One thing I want to be clear

One thing I want to be clear on for this Medusa Token idea: The player rolls the die, she moves that many spaces, and then proceeds to flip ALL of the coloured stones to grey in that row. But if there are already stones in that row, do they flip back to colour? Does she basically just flip everything that is in that row, regardless of what state they are in?

Also, I imagine the medusa token would be on the board of course, moving around - perhaps it starts in the middle. What do you suppose would happen if, during the course of the game, she gets surrounded by players tokens? Does the Medusa token have the ability to move over top of them? What happens if it comes to rest on top of a players token? I imagine it could be allowed and would just nullify that token underneath until Medusa moves again, which technically could be an effective way of blocking an opponents line for a turn.

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 18:19
#12
questccg
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Some clarifications

Westmaas wrote:
One thing I have to inquire about is your idea for a die-controlled Medusa Token. You mentioned blank,blank,1,1,2,2 as the sides - does that indicate how many tokens you can flip on a turn? Or how many spaces it can move?

It means I was thinking that the game should be "like the robber in Catan" but it moves from one (1) row to another. The faces "Blank, 1, 2" indicate when the Medusa MOVES...

1. If it's a Blank, she stays in the same row and does not move.

2. If it's a Number (1 or 2), that decides which player moves Medusa.

BUT IF you in ADDITION ROLL a standard d6, you have 6 sides to your hexagon. The value of that roll gets to choose what SIDE to place the Medusa in... The ROW on THAT side is chosen by the player...

That adds a HUGE element of strategy... Making it HARDER to just move the Medusa where you want...

Personally using two d6s (one custom and one standard) is really intuitive... And it's normal to roll 2d6s...

And as for FLIPPING... The Medusa flips ALL 8 tokens in that ROW. Flip twice to return to NORMAL (That also is amazing for strategy too...)

Let me know if you still have questions... Cheers!

Again feel free to use what you like and disregard what you don't.

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 18:43
#13
questccg
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Here's what I mean about the STANDARD D6

Those number identify the side that the Medusa will move to (Rolling standard 1d6)...

In this particular case the ROLL was "1". And so all the row (chosen one — there are always two choices) are flipped. I just used your board/image to show the results.

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 19:50
#14
Westmaas
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questccg wrote: Those number

questccg wrote:

Those number identify the side that the Medusa will move to (Rolling standard 1d6)...

In this particular case the ROLL was "1". And so all the row (chosen one — there are always two choices) are flipped. I just used your board/image to show the results.

Oh okay amazing, I absolutely understand what you mean now. That's very very interesting and I like it. A couple questions arise: 1, the corner hexes would never be able to targeted, which I suppose is okay and offers a bit of relief from the Medusa glare. 2, is the Medusa rolled at the start of each Players turn, or after both players have moved once?

I remember you mentioning another dice that indicates which Player gets to move the Medusa, but it was slightly confusing. For instance, lets say I go first. I roll and get a 3 on the D6, and move Medusa to one of the red hexes. I then place my own token down and it's now your turn. Do you then roll Medusa again, and then place your own token? I love how this is shaping up, just want to make sure I have a grasp on how a play turn would look.

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 20:04
#15
Westmaas
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I see now that you mentioned

I see now that you mentioned a roll of the dice determines which Player actually moves Medusa. Does that happen after each turn, or after each player goes once (and then another dice roll ensues). The problem there might be that the same person (Player 1) could keep getting the ability to move her if the dice roll keeps landing on 1.

3 moves per turn is also interesting. Would you suggest 2 flips of existing tokens on the board, and 1 new token being placed?

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 20:20
#16
questccg
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Some additional ideas

Westmaas wrote:
I see now that you mentioned a roll of the dice determines which Player actually moves Medusa. Does that happen after each turn, or after each player goes once (and then another dice roll ensues).

One roll/move per ROUND. So what this means is Player 1 does his turn, Player 2 does his turn... Then one player rolls BOTH d6s and see WHO controls the Medusa and what region that she may be played in.

Westmaas wrote:
The problem there might be that the same person (Player 1) could keep getting the ability to move her if the dice roll keeps landing on 1.

That's kind of the idea... If it was always one than the other, it would be alternating ... and where's the strategy in that? If you are a lucky roller, that's only HALF the strategy ... since you also must consider the other die roll for the position.

Westmaas wrote:
3 moves per turn is also interesting. Would you suggest 2 flips of existing tokens on the board, and 1 new token being placed?

My thinking on this is flip 3 AND play 1 New. But this should be playtested to see what works best. But you get the general idea... Maybe flip 2 AND play 1 New is better... IDK. You'd need to see what works best... Like you want the Medusa to be a FACTOR. But you don't want it to be "super annoying" either. Playtesting will help determine what is better for your game.

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Fri, 09/14/2018 - 21:13
#17
Mosker
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Another idea better kept--for another game

Jay103 wrote:

Medusa is also a form of jellyfish. That's what I thought you meant at first!

Indeed, if this weren't an abstract game, I'd love to see an application of Pegasus springing from a beheaded gorgon. (Perhaps a piece with all sorts of extra movement ability gained after a brutal--and perhaps costly to maintain balance--strike)...
...
...but not in this abstract game

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Sat, 09/15/2018 - 20:46
#18
Westmaas
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Okay well thanks for all the

Okay well thanks for all the amazing suggestions and ideas! I’m gonna be playtesting like mad over the weekend and seeing what works :)

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