In my opinion, the video is well done and the game looks a lot better than an earlier version.
Best of luck in the contest.
--DarkDream
Feedback Please - Treasure Diver
Fri, 02/01/2019 - 12:55
#32
Video Looks Great
Mon, 02/11/2019 - 01:35
#33
Some thoughts
I like the changes. It shows that you have put a lot of thought and work in this from the last version the one that you have now. Not that there is anything wrong with the version you have now, but here are some thoughts.
Your game has some common elements with raptor attack. You may want to look at it. An interesting feature of the cards in that game is there's one that lets you take cards back.
You call the treasure cards well treasure cards. But one of the types of treasure cards is treasure. I could see this causing some confusion. It makes it a little hard to discuss as well. Maybe you could use loot for one of these.
Could you color code the treasures cards put to make it a little easier to peek?
Could add a smaller version of the treasure and sharks to the corners of the cards? Of course you could also color these. I think this may make peeking more efficient and more fun.
Could you put letters on the cards that indicate the resolution order? A for chum bucket. B for harpoon. C for deep dive. D for minisub.
I have a question about the end of the game. The rules say that the games ends when a lagoon runs out. Does that round complete? If not what order do players take treasures?
Could you adjust some of the theming to be something like: If you would try to claim a shark it swims into Davy Jones locker. If you were carrying any treasure at the time you drop one to get away from the shark or because you were scared of the shark. The treasure then sinks to Davy Jones locker.
Why does the 6 have a power and the five does not? It's not that important but it seems odd.
Feel free to disregard, use or improve upon. Good luck with your game.
Mon, 02/11/2019 - 09:21
#34
Responses
I appreciate the feedback, Fri! Let me provide a few responses.
Your game has some common elements with raptor attack. You may want to look at it. An interesting feature of the cards in that game is there's one that lets you take cards back.
Thank you, I will check this out.
You call the treasure cards well treasure cards. But one of the types of treasure cards is treasure. I could see this causing some confusion. It makes it a little hard to discuss as well. Maybe you could use loot for one of these.
Excellent point! I will refer to Treasure Cards as Loot from now on. Either that, or I will change "Treasure" to "Chest" in a graphical update.
Could you color code the treasures cards put to make it a little easier to peek?
I wanted to make the icons large instead, communicating the idea that I wanted the game to be language- and colour-independent. I suppose adding a tint or more obvious colour/pattern to the loot would be helpful, but I do like seeing an underwater graphic on the back of the cards. This is something to think about, for sure.
Could add a smaller version of the treasure and sharks to the corners of the cards? Of course you could also color these.
Certainly worth considering for a future graphical update. It might also be more useful when tallying up loot at the end.
Could you put letters on the cards that indicate the resolution order? A for chum bucket. B for harpoon. C for deep dive. D for minisub.
I've struggled with this a bit. The cards are resolved in numerical order. Additionally, the play-aid has the special cards listed in the proper order for resolution during the turn. The only exception is the 0 - minisub, which can be resolved anytime during that dive.
I'm concerned about adding too many icons to the cards, and am trying to make essential information on them language-independent. Do you feel like numbers -and- letters are required to bring across the proper resolution procedure?
I have a question about the end of the game. The rules say that the games ends when a lagoon runs out. Does that round complete? If not what order do players take treasures?
Finish that dive as per usual, including distributing treasures to the winners. The Lagoon empties when treasures are taken from it, so a new dive doesn't begin.
Could you adjust some of the theming to be something like: If you would try to claim a shark it swims into Davy Jones locker. If you were carrying any treasure at the time you drop one to get away from the shark or because you were scared of the shark. The treasure then sinks to Davy Jones locker.
No problems with that. It makes sense and is an easy fix.
Why does the 6 have a power and the five does not? It's not that important but it seems odd.
I am thinking of an ability to add to the 5 card. I have a couple ideas, and the front-runner right now is situational but quite powerful: blocking the minisub from switching loot in Davy Jones' Locker or having the minisub's opponent switch the loot card instead of the active player. I coupled the "extra peek" power with the strongest dive card so players would have a more interesting choice determining when to use it.
The bigger picture question is, "Why have one card without a special ability?" My main reason for this is so that players don't have to agonize over -every- single choice they make. If I do add an ability to the number 5 dive team card, it will likely be a specific, situational one.
Thank you very much for your feedback! It's all helping me move this game in the right direction: into a publisher's hands. :)
Fri, 02/22/2019 - 17:34
#35
More thoughts
Sorry for the delayed response and lack of quoting. Quoting is difficult for me on the phone.
I saw that you mentioned raptor elsewhere I am glad that you at least got something out of looking at the game.
I also like the underwater graphic on the back of the card. I was thinking that the actual treasures could have a color associated with them. Just a simple one color fill. But if that looks horrible then never mind.
Ignore my suggestion about the letters. Can you add a note in the rule book that they resolve in numeric order to help out unobservent people like myself out?
Make sure to include that you finish dive when a loogan runs out of cards. Your current rules don t mention this. That was the point of my question last time but I did not word it so that it could produce an actionable result.
As for a for the powerless five. I think what you are saying is that the five will have a power and you just have not figured out what it will be. IMO you could give it the power on the 6 card and then the six doesn't really need a power since it is the best card. Maybe I a viewing this through the lens of raptor. I have a couple of ideas for powers. One is instead of discarding the cards you played reclaim them into your hand. Of course this is too good for the five card. You would have to place it on a lower card shuffle the remainsing powers up a card. The other is this dive teams retrieves always retrieves a treasure card even if it is beat.
Feel free to disregard use or improve upon anything I said. Good luck with your game.
Sat, 02/23/2019 - 14:56
#36
Just watched the video
Sorry if these ideas are already in the thread prior.
I like the theme of the game, diving for treasure.
If you are interested in expanding from 1v1 game and adding a "team" of divers, here are some ideas.
Perhaps a mechanic that could help players "feel" like they are diving is, as you flip and reveal more and more of the deck over, the game gets more intense. The risks go up, just like in real diving. Set a meter that shows how deep divers are going and have that "depth" number effect what happens in the game.
IMO, a 1v1 game is more of a fight than anything else. a competition.. maybe. but when I'm going head to head, I don't get the "exploring" and diving "feel" . I feel more like I'm athletes or dueling it out to see who has the best ____. this mechanic of "comparing" numbers to see who claims the treasure could switch to:
A team of divers, diving into the depths of the ocean, searching for treasure and avoiding the dangers of the deep!
begin at the surface. flip over the lagoon deck. when dive cards are revealed, go deeper into the water, moving the "pressure" meter up
when a "look! scanner see's treasure!" card is revealed, players have an opportunity to "find" treasure. A player with cool cards/abilities can react to this event and a stack of hidden treasure cards could be kept secret until the end of the game. Players search, possibly multiple lagoons to find and collect treasure.
Beware sharks! Sharks could come more frequently at deeper depths or more likely to hurt players. This could result in losing treasure or killing a player (less fun)
This would bump your playing time to 45 min and go 3-6 players with 4-5 being possibly the most fun to play with.
When I go diving with friends, I don't think of going head to head in a boxing ring. I go with a team and explore. the mechanics could represent that.
IF you want to stick to the 1v1 game, I suggest making either super simple (for kids) or much more complex (layers of moving to new lagoons, exploring different oceans, discovering new oceanic wildlife, the list is endless)
Simple route: I found more treasure than you! haha, shark took your treasure!
Middle route: do what you have. its great for that 10+ age and is easy enough to understand. You won't have hard core gamers, or 5+ audience but it could fill the gap. still needs tweaking because the mechanic is simply a who beats who luck based with minor control of the variance. I suggest balancing the luck to the choices. a middle route game HAS to have this balance perfect to include the young and adult audiences otherwise the game won't have an audience.
complex route: well, it wouldn't be just a card game anymore...
Mon, 02/25/2019 - 20:12
#37
Thanks!
It was great to read your thoughts and feedback. I appreciate it!
The idea of making a multiplayer game has been bouncing round in my mind lately. I'm fairly confident in the current version of the game being suitable, but expansion in some way - most likely a team-based game - seems to have bubbled up more than once.
Your comments about balancing luck and meaningful choices are very much appreciated. I'm confident the game supports this, and younger players could also have a go by removing the sharks from the deck and seeing who comes out on top.
I'm not terribly excited about expanding this game beyond the single deck of cards I have, but future expansion of the "treasure diver" ideas could always go in a number of directions. I was initially excited to make a "sharks versus divers" game, but for the sake of simplicity I made this version. I'm fairly certain any expanded idea will contain these asymmetrical teams - and perhaps multiple players.
Thanks again for your feedback! :)
Thu, 02/28/2019 - 18:24
#38
Nope
So the game didn't make the cut this time round in the contest. We'll see what sort of reception it garners at Unpub. :)
Mon, 03/11/2019 - 12:33
#39
Exhibition Prep
Here are a few additions I'm hoping to test out at the Unpub convention in about two weeks. For those of you familiar with the game (read the rules sheet, watched the video/s), what is your gut reaction to the following?
Special Loot Cards
These appear in the Lagoons like other Loot, but provide special one-time actions for the player that has collected them. Unused ability cards will assist with tie-breakers (but are not worth treasure).
- Dolphin: provide +1 (or maybe +2) to a Dive Team card, playable after all other Dive Team cards and Loot Cards are revealed.
- Octopus Ink: prevent an opponent (with either Scanner or Captain role) from peeking for one round.
- Blue Hole: collect one (or two) Treasure from Davy Jones' Locker, opponent's choice.
- Perfect Storm: at the end of this dive, reshuffle all discarded Sharks and Davy Jones' Locker back into each Lagoon. The top three cards from these Lagoons create the new Davy Jones' Locker.
Dive Team Card #5 Ability
- Blocks the Minisub from activating during this Dive
This is a highly-specific condition, I know. This is a deliberate choice. The Minisub becomes more valuable later in the game, and so does the power of this card. The result I'm aiming for is that the players will be trying to determine when to play the Dive Team 5 card based on its ability, as opposed to just its high bid value (at least, later in the game).
Extra Value for some Loot Cards
- One Loot Card of each type will be worth 2 of that specific kind of treasure, instead of just 1.
I wanted to add variability to the Loot, without adding another category of treasure.
Any thoughts on the above? Any other suggestions in the same vein?
Trimmed the video to 4:59... -Just- short enough to qualify for the contest. :)