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Combat system

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irdesigns510
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Joined: 06/24/2009

An idea for a Dice Fest...*AHEM...Combat resolution system. it works off of "aiming" and leadership points. this is for small scale combat resolution, where units are treated collectively, not individually like warhammer.

Units are completely killed, mortally wound them and they are gone,
dont do enough damage, and they go back to full health and the end of your turn (like creatures in magic: the gathering) *this is to keep down on the accounting.

units have a power and a toughness, an "aim value", and a range value.
the first 2 exchange like creatures in magic do, but the aim value is different...
(range is pretty self explanatory)

Basically, every time a unit attacks another unit, they roll 6 dice, keeping every "6" that comes up.
if your unit has an aim value of , say, 2, then you need 2 6's to do your units damage.
if you only had one 6, then you miss.
Leadership points allow you to re-roll the numbers that werent 6's.
(this works similar to yahtzee, only you always go for 6.)

if you roll more 6's than your aim value, add 1 point to your power for each 6 you roll.
(leaders will come in handy for taking on big creatures with small ones)

Enemies can go into cover, increasing your "aim value". they can also be outside of your range, increasing your "aim value" for each measure of movement.

Gameplay Example:
Unit A
Power: 3
Aim: 3
Leader with 2 points

Unit B
Toughness 4

When "A" attacks "B", he rolls 6 dice, and only one comes up a 6. The Leader of A yells- "They may take our live, but they'll never take our freedom!" ..roll again, one more 6. Leader A screams (in his best Braveheart impersonation) "GRRBLAARRGH!" ...roll again, 2 more 6's

Total 6's = 4
Damage dealt = 4 (power+one extra 6)
Unit B is destroyed.

Thoughts? Has this been done before?

genericm
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Joined: 08/11/2009
Sounds Good

For combat resolution the system sounds good and quick, which is a big plus in my book.

I would just make sure to have strategic decisions elsewhere in the game or players may consider it too random.

(unless of course it's a co-op game)

irdesigns510
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It's meant to play with binomial distribution

genericm wrote:
For combat resolution the system sounds good and quick, which is a big plus in my book.
I would just make sure to have strategic decisions elsewhere in the game or players may consider it too random.

Thank you! i was trying for quick, however a little more involved than a "4+ to hit" (which is essentially a coin flip) like other games have. and dont worry, i have plenty of choices players will have to make.

When it comes to designing, i do it all in parts. this is just a quick sketch of a CRS. ill certainly have some decisions in movement and in tactics (what types of troops are there, how to promote leaders, etc.)

i was actually playing with "fooling around with randomness" on purpose.
with things being too random, it would come down to choices influencing these values.
True: an Aim of "2" on 6d6, the odds of hitting it on the first try are 20.09% (i think i did that right)...or roughly 1 in 5., and those aren't odds that id like to go into battle with, there will be alot of missed rolls. 4 in 5 to be exact!

however if you have the leadership points, (gained by completing tasks like holding ground, or finishing missions, or killing enemy units - however i decide later.) the numbers change as you use them. if you have an "aim: 3" then it is only -roughly- a 40% chance to get that third 6. (that is , after you have already had the first two!) it works like this:

percentage of getting 6's on your first roll
1- 6's: 40.19%
2- 6's: 20.09%
3- 6's: 5.36%
4- 6's: .8%
5- 6's: .06%
6- 6's: less than .01%

percentage to get a single 6 with your remaining dice, after the first roll
one 6 -in 6 dice: 40.19%
one 6 -in 5 dice: 40.19%
one 6 -in 4 dice: 38.58%
one 6 -in 3 dice: 34.72%
one 6 -in 2 dice: 27.78%
one 6 -in 1 dice: 16.67%

so as you see, the leadership points make the MAJOR difference, and can make up for the "less skilled" units who have harder "aim values" by allowing the re-roll of the missed dice with your leadership. you have to earn them though.

in creating an "aim number", i was able to fit in things like: being in cover, being too far away, and critical damage (with the excess 6's). Things that should be implicit for the end user, yet quantifiable as a designer, and modifiable by in-game equipment and actions.

All this said, i think that d6's are too low of odds to pull this off in a non-frustrating way, d4's should do the trick. i dont want the game to just be an exchange of leadership points.
thank you for the "too random". it made me take a second look that the 6's on the first roll.

rcjames14
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Chasing Box Cars

irdesigns510 wrote:
All this said, i think that d6's are too low of odds to pull this off in a non-frustrating way, d4's should do the trick. i dont want the game to just be an exchange of leadership points.
thank you for the "too random". it made me take a second look that the 6's on the first roll.

Warhammer employs a somewhat similar dynamic... though their roll to hit number is much more forgiving. As you have discovered, a d6 is actually widely unreliable when you seek one particular number. When I was thinking of almost the exact same mechanic a few years back, I started rolling groups of d6 to get a more visceral feel for the outcome. As it turns out, you will need to roll a lot of d6s to get reliable results for even low numbers of hits. Getting 4 hits with a 50% reliability is likely to require a couple dozen dice. And, at the same time, those same dice could give you 8 hits. So... players might find it very frustrating to execute the plans they devise.

BTW, like the title: I haven't seen binomial distribution used by any since my grad Stats class. Very underappreciated in society.

Koen Hendrix
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Joined: 11/24/2010
Yes

Yes, I think this would be a genuine dice-fest; but personally I'm not very attracted to having to roll a few handfuls of dice before having a chance of killing a single unit. Twenty handfuls to resolve a combat? A hundred handfuls per game per player? Too much. (Just my opinion - your mileage may vary.) See how it works out in a playtest. You could always drop the '6' to a '5+' for less die-rolling.

Apart from that, It struck me as strange that having a high 'Aim' score was bad. I know I'm nitpicking, players will understand after you've explained that it's sort of the time they need to aim. I'd suggest giving it either a negative name or make the mechanic work the other way so that a high Aim is good.

Otherwise, it looks interesting, keep it up!

~Koen

irdesigns510
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after playing around with it,

changing to a d3 gives me the same as a 5+ on a regular dice, while keeping a "single side to hit" that id like to keep. it also doubles the chances of every statistic that i have above, so all my math is just x2.

i could also change names from how warhammer has "ballistic/weapon skill", to "combat difficulty" for my thing. instead of people saying in-game "whats your WS?" they can say "whats your CD?" (in a simple name change, leadership points would help "overcome" difficulty, so that works well... thanks.)

one thing i need to work with is number of units on the field at a given time. ill need to keep that somewhat low, but that's solvable by scale. i currently have a smaller scale as it is, so thats fine.

however changing to a d3 should give me the good initial rolls without getting too wild with guaranteed hits. (after all, i want there to be re-rolls given by leadership points, so it is more than just luck, and so bonus damage is given with the excess hits). I will need to play around with the quantity of dice, as it will be the same # for every resolution, for every unit, for every player.

warhammer has a guaranteed 3 rolls per unit - per resolution (hit, then wound, then save - even if the save is done by the other player, im counting it) - even more if you are assaulting (totaling 5, actually). I'd look to keep somewhere a little less than that amount, as they worked it out so that it's not too daunting.

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