Skip to Content
 

Semi-blind partnerships and sheepshead

8 replies [Last post]
Tue, 09/09/2008 - 18:51
tomchaps
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008

Back in college, I played four-hand Sheepshead quite a bit. It's a fairly simple trick-taking Skat variant, but it held our interest for years. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheepshead)

Why? Perhaps there are other games like this, but I haven't run across one with this mechanism. In Sheephead, there are two "partner cards"; you are partner with whoever else has the other partner card that hand (and obviously, if you dont have one, you're partner with the other player without.) Sometimes you have to play against the other three, if you are dealt both--and here the key is to bluff and try to make others think you're their partner.

The only way to know who has the partner cards is when they are played in the regular course of the game.

Now, this seems to me to have a lot of potential as a mechanism. When one partner card is played, there is an interesting information assymetry, which allows for bluffing and neat little tricks. Everyone else knows if they are the partner-card-player's partner or not, but they don't.

I have been thinking a lot recently about game designs that feature assymetric information but (roughly) symmetric structure, and this seemed a good starting place.

So, anyone want to help me think through the skeleton of a game where partnerships are determined not by negotiation but through a slowly-revealed game mechanism?

Top
Thu, 09/11/2008 - 19:26
#1
larienna
larienna's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2008
exactly what I need

This ios some kind of mechanic I would need for one of my game.

One of my game is a james bond style game. It will play with cards but I don't know how they will be played.

The idea is 1 player players james bond and everybody knows it. All other players play a character but they do not reveal their role in the story yet. The can be good, neutral or evil.

What I want to do is making sure player can play cards in order to help or hinder james bond. Might add a bit of "clue" also because I want it to be possible to make deduction to find the identity of other players.

Top
Fri, 09/12/2008 - 15:59
#2
tomchaps
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
Hmm, have you perused the

Hmm, have you perused the many (many many) Werewolf variants out there?

Will it be more of a cooperative storytelling game, or a deduction game?

Top
Fri, 09/12/2008 - 20:35
#3
fecundity
fecundity's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2008
I like this idea a

I like this idea a lot.

Quote:
Will it be more of a cooperative storytelling game, or a deduction game?
Neither, I think.

The underlying game would be a strategic game that could imaginably be played with partners known in advance. The deduction enters as a complication over and above that, because you only find out who your partner is as the game unfolds.

Regarding the James Bond game: Why not have Bond be a game element rather than a specific player? That way the situation of the players is symmetrical. I know if I am for or against Bond (for example) but I don't know whether any of the other players are with me or against me.

Top
Fri, 09/12/2008 - 21:37
#4
larienna
larienna's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2008
Quote:That way the situation

Quote:
That way the situation of the players is symmetrical.

Making a symetrical game might be easier to balance especially with a different number of players. I'll think about it. It might not be a bad idea after all. The only other asymetrical game I could think is fury of dracula which almost requires exactly 5 players.

But I still like the asymetry in my game, it gives it a charm.

Quote:
Will it be more of a cooperative storytelling game, or a deduction game?

I could say a mix of both. I know the components that will be present in the game, I just don't know yet how they are going to be used to produce the effect I want. I intend to use a world map as a board with connection lines between popular cities. Maybe have some empty space around the board to place cards in a specific location. Pawns for the characters and cards. James will have special additional cards like gadgets to help himself.

While James bond moves around the world, he meets new characters which appear on the board. Probably event will trigger things on the board forcing the players to react to it. Maybe the bad guy will have a hidden hide out. The core mechanic, which is how the cards will be used, is totally unknown.

Still the trick taking mechanism gave me some ideas. Probably tricks would be played face down to avoid revealing your identity. Not all players would be allowed to play a card to bring some suspicions on who could be a bad guy. Probably, I'll inspire myself on the partner mechanism to make the neutral character shift for or against james. Like "if this happen you must now help james"

I also thought of delayed trick taking. Like players place cards in location. When james investigate, he takes the card in that location, shuffle them, reveal them and solve the trick. Characters at the same location can add a card. Maybe james would need to play a card from his hand to win the trick. It's an interesting idea. So that's why trick taking mechanism has opened to me a door I have not seen before. Once it's in place, I can easily expand the idea and makes sure the cards are more than just play a card with a number or suit.

Top
Sat, 09/13/2008 - 11:47
#5
Brykovian
Brykovian's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/21/2008
Tom ... Sheepshead is *the*

Tom ...

Sheepshead is *the* card game for my family -- especially when the guys gather at deer hunting camp. We usually play the 5-player version where there is a 2-card blind that you can choose to pickup. The partners are then the "picker" and however is holding the Jack of Diamonds. This makes for a 3-vs-2 (or 4-vs-1 sometimes) game where 1 person's role is known from the start. I absolutely love the way this works in the game.

This seems similar to what larienna is working on where 1 player's role is known from the start ("Bond ... James Bond") and the others are revealed later on.

One thing that works nicely with the Sheepshead revelation mechanic is that when and how you choose to reveal yourself as the partner is part of the overall unspoken communication to your partner in the game. If you drop your revelation card early, it's telling the lead player that you aren't going to bring much help in the area of card-taking power, but you might be able to help add points into the trick. If you wait until later in the hand, it's usually due to having enough power to be taking some tricks and hoping the other players will be unwittingly putting points down on those tricks.

Not sure how that sort of strategy/communication would play into a spy game, but it works great for a trick-taking card game.

-Bryk

Top
Mon, 09/22/2008 - 19:04
#6
tomchaps
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
Bryk, Yeah, don't you think

Bryk,

Yeah, don't you think that the delicious tension inherent in the revelation mechanic could be successfully reworked into a more "Eurofied" partnership game?

Bluffing and assymetry are two favorites of mine, so...

Top
Tue, 09/23/2008 - 00:08
#7
Brykovian
Brykovian's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/21/2008
tomchaps wrote:Yeah, don't

tomchaps wrote:
Yeah, don't you think that the delicious tension inherent in the revelation mechanic could be successfully reworked into a more "Eurofied" partnership game?

Definitely!

And, since Sheepshead is originally a German card game, it likely has the proper genetic material to work with. ;-D

-Bryk

Top
Tue, 09/23/2008 - 10:11
#8
kodarr
Offline
Joined: 08/04/2008
hidden partners and enemies

I never played Sheepshead but with hidden partners sounds like Bang where one player is the sherrif and everyone else has hidden rules and there is always at least one deputy helping the sherif but no one knows who that person is only who the sherrif is.

Top
Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut