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Several questions on opinions, knowledge and other

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Mansemat
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I considered making a thread for each question but that seemed to be a bit too much so I'll combine these questions I have in one mega-mansemat-asks-a-question-thread.

1) What's the best murder/mystery game out there where you're competing against other players.
I'm interested in making one myself where several players must figure out a murder and where backstabbery and suspense is rampant but I'm stumped on how to keep the murder hidden from others long enough without it being too hard to figure out. Games I know usually work with 3or 4 deduction points which are usually too easy to solve.

2) I have a lot of active gamedesigns and I'd like people to playtest it publically and therefore offer it as print to play. Does this however reduce my "chances" that publishers might pick it up (since it's already "out there"?)

3) Many projects I'm making are reaching a point where I only need to do art (and playtest). I know people don't bother with art and all that jazz but I'm an "artist" graphic designer and all that by nature and it's fun to do BUT...
I'm looking for a tablet that allows me to drawn and paint on the road. I do not have the money to buy a cintiq and my 10-year old Intuos A4+ is bigger than my 17inch laptop... I REFUSE to buy ipad (or anything apple for that matter). Does anyone here have recommendations for me? Ive heard the Galaxy Note 10 and Surface Pro 2 are great but does it work well with quick drawing and how are the apps (or is this photoshop or painter).

4) Is there a thread somewhere that details how to make adventure games like Smersh or Arkham Horror and more so how to keep track (excel?).
I grasp the concept of starting at point A and having 3 options which have 3 stories which will lead to X options that could be the X options from another story but still... what am I missing?

5) How do you guys and gals feel about the open nature of a game. When designing I often am stumped with gender and specifics. I rather have a character who players can choose to be either male, female or other, have mission for example that merely state "steal item" relying on the creativity of a player to fill in the "blanks" and make the game more unique each time (unless you use the same entries). How do you guys solve it or do you just name a chair a chair and be done with it? And how do you solve the player-naming in your manuals... my already longwinded rulebooks get even longer each time I have to say "his or her" where "the player" isn't possible.

6) Watching Rahdo rampage like a freightrain (oh oh oh the chaos) and hear him saying WOTC copyrighted 'tap'... He serious?!

Hope this will become a people-will-eagerly-answer-the-questions-thread!

ruy343
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Replies:

1. I would say look at "Betrayal at the House on the Hill" or "Clue" to see how those games do it. As far as I can tell, the reason why Betrayal is so good is because the players don't know all of the scenarios that could happen (There's a book full of them), so it's always suspenseful.
2. No idea.
3. No idea.
4. I would recommend that you get your hands on the 4E Dungeon Master's Guide for D&D. Yes, I know that everyone and their dog hated the rules in 4th edition, but the dungeon master's guide is a work of art. It explains clearly how to write adventures, how to grip players, and how to keep the flow going right when you're playing a game with adventure elements. Also teaches how to include proper levels of suspense and intrigue. Highly recommended.
5. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with the first part, but I know how to answer the second part. I would simply use the word "her" as the pronoun. The number of male rights advocates is incredibly low, so no one will protest. (I'm only partly kidding.)
6. Yep. The name "tap" was patented.The reason they did was because it's so easy to see and so clear to the players what has been used and what hasn't> Does that mean that you can't "turn" a card? probably not. but I'm not a legal expert.

questccg
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About PNP

#2: I would avoid doing anything for the public eye IF you plan to deal with a Publisher:

-So no Board Game Geek entry (some Publishers will reject a game if it's already on BGG).
-Don't spread the game around with the exception of play groups - like a designer's group or a playtester group.
-Don't plan on doing a Kickstarter unless the publisher is interested in partnering to do one together.

What I would encourage and is permissible is to have a Development blog or a Facebook Fan page for the game. That can help attract some attention to the game... And maybe build a pre-release following.

#3: Smaller publishers like to see artwork samples and nice card layouts (if possible). If you've found a talented artist and have negotiated a budget for producing the artwork, that can only help with smaller publishers.

Also the more professional your prototype looks, the better the odds people are interested in knowing more about your game!

#6: WOTC patented the concept of "tapping". You cannot use the term "Tap" (from what I have heard/understood from other designers).

Koen Hendrix
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#1) You could look at Mystery

#1) You could look at Mystery Of The Abbey, which is basically Clue But Better.

#6) "Tapping" may be patented, but that doesn't mean you can't "Spend" or "Exhaust" a card and show that state by rotating the card 90 degrees.

tuism
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questccg wrote:#2: I would

questccg wrote:
#2: I would avoid doing anything for the public eye IF you plan to deal with a Publisher:

-So no Board Game Geek entry (some Publishers will reject a game if it's already on BGG).
-Don't spread the game around with the exception of play groups - like a designer's group or a playtester group.
-Don't plan on doing a Kickstarter unless the publisher is interested in partnering to do one together.

What I would encourage and is permissible is to have a Development blog or a Facebook Fan page for the game. That can help attract some attention to the game... And maybe build a pre-release following.

#3: Smaller publishers like to see artwork samples and nice card layouts (if possible). If you've found a talented artist and have negotiated a budget for producing the artwork, that can only help with smaller publishers.

Also the more professional your prototype looks, the better the odds people are interested in knowing more about your game!

These are very interesting perspectives you have there - I'm utterly noob in the boardgame dev scene, having spent more of my time in the video game dev scene, but everything you said here pretty much contradicts what I know about video game dev, in that it seems like if you want your game to succeed, the best way to go about it is to keep it away from the world.

In the video game dev scene, the best chance you have of marketing on bugger all budget - i.e. Indie, is to develop the game out in the open, get as many eyeballs on it as possible, share everything you can with a potential audience, let them follow your personal story, contribute, and feel like you all made the game together.

So is the boardgame scene so utterly opposite because... There's no programming/specialised knowledge, and it's all pure rules, art, component and production/distribution?

Very interested to hear more on this subject!

questccg
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Just to confirm...

Mansemat wrote:

2) I have a lot of active gamedesigns and I'd like people to playtest it publically and therefore offer it as print to play. Does this however reduce my "chances" that publishers might pick it up (since it's already "out there"?)...

One industry expert says and I quote: "Many, but not all, Publishers won’t deal with a game previously released as Print and Play. The games that do follow this route tend to be the ones there were huge award winning hits in PnP first and then went to full production."

So I guess it would be best to stay away from PNP if you want to deal with a publisher... Odds are you are not going to be a HUGE award winning hit...!

richdurham
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on the other hand...

1) You could look other deduction games, like PI, that have each player solving their own case in a race. That one has no backstabbing or player interaction at all, except that the player to your left is the one holding the details to your case.

2)I tend to agree more with Tuism here, depending on the route you wish to take. If you're kickstarting your game, PNP it, ship out playtest copies to reviewers and bloggers and just get it out there. Not just for marketing but every step of the design process. I point to Daniel Solis' blog in regards to this because he's designed a number of games - both published himself and sold to other publishers - and his design process is completely public (with input from others).

If you intend to sell the design to another publisher, PNP first is debatable. If it builds buzz, great! If it doesn't, some publishers might take it as a bad sign...but then PNP is a sub-niche and not all games are appropriate for the format.

3) Tablets - I don't use much beyond a Bamboo tablet...but if you're looking for one with a screen you might go with a Surface, since it's basically a full window machine and will run photoshop desktop version. However if you're looking for just a quick drawing app, adobe does have photoshop express for android. In both cases what you will really need to worry about is the stylus. Look for one like the Jot touch that you can see through.

4)Not that I know of, but you can start one.

5)Aside from the gender part (pick a pronoun and stick with it. You can even switch from "her" to "him" in an example with two people so you don't have to say "player A") it seems you're kind of talking about a thematic layer. Why have a treasure just be a treasure when it could be the "Lost Orb of Ach'n'bob?" Naming things generically will have limited value in keeping each play unique, and should only be used for actual common items, like a chair. That is, if the chair is not really the point of the game's narrative layer. If decor is important - for instance establishing whether a room in a scenario is decrepit or pristine - then it might be useful to care about the chair.

Is that what you meant?

6) Yeah, for serious. And with the videogame industry getting worse with naming legislation (ahem, candy crush ass hats) it's even more important now for designers to set a good example and KEEP DESIGN OPEN.

Mansemat
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Thanks for the answer all

1) Am looking for the rulebooks of all proposed games, already "acquired" the Dungeon Master's book

2) That sucks, guess I'll have to playtest with myself... Should have kept the friends I had in the past... Then again they would never help so bugger that.

3) I have access to the adobe suites (now even legally, thx to work!) so I would prefer using those instead of a third party company app built in. I guess Surface is the way to go then but damn... a month's wage is a lot. :(

4) Often thought about "giving" to the community by making box templates and all that or "how to-tutorials but idk if I'm the right person for that (seeing certain tutorials I might be but it's more a thing of arrogance/confidence I guess.) Stuff is all around and I'm a big fan of centralised stuff. It's semi-rediculous how many threads are made on where and how to find things even though they can easily be put in one big site.

5) There was a guy once who invented a word for combining him and her and all the others but it sounded rediculous. Maybe, like tapping, we will once come to a point where a mere symbol suffices.

6) Copyright law is rediculous. So I guess I can't "tap that ass" either huh... I'll invent the term "pat" just to screw with it if it has to come to that. Idem for candy crush; even though I remember a past case in the US about people wanting to copyright words (like coffee) which was prohibited. I generally use the word "turn" but still... It's all Rahdo's fault anyways... everything is. He created chaos, which created the big bang... Vasel will save us. Will is the antichrist, it's all connected. It really is...

McTeddy
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2) What you want to do for

2)

What you want to do for playtesting is go to BGG or here and ASK for playtesters. Send anyone who is interested the PnP pieces.
No need for NDA's or other complications... just keep it short of making it fully public.

While a popular PnP version won't technically HURT your chances of a publisher picking up your game... it does limit what they'd be able do with it.

Publishers in board games need to fit your game into their current marketing needs. This usually means that they will take your game and make changes to fit their plans. (This can be anything from the theme to actual core gameplay mechanics)

The more expectations that you create with the public, the less they'll be able to change your game. This means that it is less likely to fit into "what they need" and won't get picked up.

3)

Be careful with the art if you are going the publisher route.

AS I mentioned above, publishers will often need to make changes.

If it LOOKS like you've spent alot of time and money on the graphics... they MAY hesitate. If it looks like you've put too much time and effort into the project they may assume that you don't want to throw away your efforts.

If they can't throw away your current stuff... it can't change... and again doesn't fit into their needs.

Make it look good, but don't go overboard. Even if they pick up your game... the work is likely throw-away.

Keep in mind, I've heard a few success stories where the publishers keep the art and pay more... I just don't hear many.

4)
Not exactly sure what you're asking...

5)
I usually just call a chair a chair. While their are benefits to using colorful language and explaining things from a thematic standpoint... I'm not particularly good at it.

I usually just say "his". I know I'm a terrible monster of a person but it's easier to type.

The other thing to keep in mind for both of the above is that long rule books can be intimidating. Using a more concise and mechanical booklet is beneficial on that note.

6)
Yes. He's serious.

You run a risk of being sued for using the word Tap when relating to turning a card sideways. Not ****ing kidding.

That's why you see many rule sets calling it "Exhaust", "Expend", etc.

BONUS)
Keep in mind, everything I said applies ONLY to publishers.

If you are going self-publisher GO ALL OUT! You want to develop a following PnP and beautiful artwork so that you can raise lots of money on kickstarter.

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