Hi friends!
I got my new game on Kickstarter and it's already 95% funded.
I blog to help other designers out at http://www.gatekeepergaming.com/kickstarter-advice-columns/, and here I humbly ask you to consider supporting the new game!
Thanks for taking a look.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/johnwrot/adapt-the-card-and-dice-ga...
Yours,
John Wrot!
Hey man!
I don't want to rub salt in the wound, but..
Why such a high goal?
I mean, I might be missing something, but after a quick look at the components, I could imagine that many potential backers might question your goal amount.
Most games with minis go for ~30-40K goal. And games with minis usually have 3x/4x times the production cost. And you only have cardboard, cards and some non-custom dice.
So what happens is with relatively low price/box you take a while to reach your goal, and then people start questioning if they are going to reach any SGs. And at this point they start to drop out.
And yes, I know that your game is perfectly playable without SGs, but for your average KS backer, it's not how the things work.
Games are measured by: < amount of components + unlocked stretch-goals + KS exclusives / price >. While game-play is taken for granted and adds no value.
I hope your campaign succeeds. But if it doesn't, relaunch, and set your goal at ~10K.
You will fund and you will likely get much more pledges than you would otherwise.
John,
It's great to see you out here...I've heard you on an Undead Viking video podcast and have certainly engaged with Jamey Stegmaier in the recent past. I've checked out the project site and while I agree with some of the comments ElKobold has made, they also run counter to much of the wisdom which Jamey has conveyed on the issue.
Cheers,
Joe
It's great to see you out here...I've heard you on an Undead Viking video podcast and have certainly engaged with Jamey Stegmaier in the recent past. I've checked out the project site and while I agree with some of the comments ElKobold has made, they also run counter to much of the wisdom which Jamey has conveyed on the issue.
Cheers,
Joe
Well, what I've written up there is my personal experience.
Arty,
I don't doubt at all that you (and coincidentally, I) have had the experience which underscores the need for Stretch Goals, etc. I think for many folks supporting KS projects, you're right insofar as they're looking for a.) A great game and b.) Value for money.
Cheers,
Joe
I'm $12,000 invested in this project personally. That is to say, that since we just funded at $26,000 if we raise no more money, I LOSE $12,000!
I might be as unhappy with the situation on KS right now as you are, but it doesn't change the fact.
With big players like COMON and others moving to KS, you can't justify the goal in the eyes of backers by "this is how much it costs". Because in the end, what everyone is interested in is getting the most for his money. And it's understandable.
When facing a choice to back an indi boardgame or a cheaper game with higher 'value' (and value IS influenced by how much stretch goals you will open) from the established publisher most people seem to go for a better offer.
You are trying to persuade me personally in something what I already know (we've just went through a KS and we have a game with miniatures and 180 pieces of artwork. I wont write how much we've personally invested in this. But I guess you can imagine).
The above is my opinion on how people in general view the picture. Yes, it's not 'fair'. But this is how things are.
Grats on getting funded, btw.
Then you willingly hand over Kickstarter, from indie developers that it's designed for, to giants that don't need it.
Real change starts with the individual. If everyone pledges like you, then the little guy will stand no chance.
I stand by the idea that ALL creators should properly budget and put a real goal. CMON can put a $230,000 goal and get funded in a day. That number is irrelevant to them. They only hurt the little guy when they play by your perspective so they can have a widget that says "1550% funded".
Plus what happens when fake stretch goals aren't hit on the indie project and they only raise $14,000 and can't afford to produce and ship the game? Not worth it.
Real goals for real projects.
John,
I just happened to read Jamey's latest offering, with your story detailing the project page. That was a fascinating read from the standpoint that few folks are actually interested in the project page...and even less want to engage in the process.
Anyway, all the best to you!
Cheers,
Joe
1. I think that's naive
2. With this I don't argue.
You have to be able to afford it.
In any case, I see that you are very defensive and i`m not here to start a fight, so I`ll stop here. Good luck with your project.
#1 - I might be defensive, but that was offensive. I see you and I have very diff perspectives on things and therefore may not agree on much else.
#2 - I take it back, we agreed on something; and a very big something at that. Makes me wonder at your earlier critques, but I'm glad we ultimately agreed.
I'm a purist for Kickstarter. There's no changing that. And that's what I am defensive of. You can say "ni" at me, I'll be ok. But I do want to keep things strong and real for the indie designer. Otherwise what Jamey Stegmaier, James Mathe, John Coveyou, Richard Bliss, and myself all do is for naught.
John
@Professor - Thanks for reading it and telling me so. Imagine my surprise as I watch the idea spiral down the drain with a couple hundred in advertising to boot! : P
But hey, now we all know! : )
John
@KeeperoftheGate:
Nice write-up w/ expenses in your article (http://www.gatekeepergaming.com/kickstarter-advice-columns/) I do have a question though, have you seen the older articles written by Mathe? He did a nice write-up for <1K production, over 5K production and over 10K production (bar graphs etc).
Something you may want to pull from to enhance future articles like this from as you have more reliant data (more recent) as his was from 1999 or 2000 I believe. Regardless ty for the info and grats on your KS.
@John: I think indie "STUDIOS" are trying to cash in on Kickstarter. With all their digital animations, 3D models and renderings, they make so much eye-candy it's hard not to notice.
But still these games are not earning more funding than meeting their fund goal. And most will invariable take a loss on a tabletop product because they have to support a "STUDIO" not a pair of designers working closely with an artist.
We've taken our Kickstarter goal which was $15,000 and drop it to 1/3 the goal so under $5,000.
I believe an "indie" product that costs less than $5,000 to make has a HIGHER likelihood of succeeding. But there is no way a STUDIO can only use $5k as a budget for making a game... if you know what I mean?!
I think people are seeing dollars roll in their eyes since Jamey made over $1.7M in funding with Scythe. Many will try to copy his offer or make their own adaptation to try to earn that much money. I think this is why we are seeing studios with finished products pitching the KS community...
Thanks sir. I'll look into his work on that again and see if I can improve mine again as a result.
Questccg,
Minis, man. They're a gold mine on Kicktarter. It is what it is. A budget of $5000 says "TCG" though and a lot of people shy from that.
John
LAST 3 HOURS EVERYONE! Come support!
They are a gold mine only if you are COMON or Mantic.
Minis are immensely expensive to add to your game if you have a small print run.
Our game, for example, would be 4x cheaper to produce without minis. Heck, we might have actually earned something without minis :))
Well done!
Thank you iamseph! Thank you to everyone!
Grats!
John,
It's great to see another one of our own run a successful KS campaign! All the best!
Cheers,
Joe
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Sorry for the delay here.
Thanks to everyone for their comments!
@Elkobold - This game actually costs $45,000 to produce and ship. I've posted it clearly in the goals. The notion that these games cost $10,000 to produce and ship is part of what is killing Kickstarter and exactly what I exist to fight against.
People post $10,000 as if that's enough because they've never done the research and then can't fulfill! That results in more people who "got burned on kickstarter" and therefore less people that trust the platform.
PLEASE don't encourage people to lower their funding goals. PLEASE. If you want to know how much a game costs to produce and fund on Kicktarter, do the math yourself here: http://www.gatekeepergaming.com/article-7-2-budget-detail-by-detail/
I'm $12,000 invested in this project personally. That is to say, that since we just funded at $26,000 if we raise no more money, I LOSE $12,000!
But it's this exact mentality of "Oh, I saw other people do it for less" thing that I try to fight by posting REAL goals. The only reason I allowed myself to post that confusingly low goal was because I also chose to clearly state how i'm $12,000 vested in and point out that we don't break even until $45,000. Until you price out a game and art and shipping and marketing and custom dice (yes, they're custom), and all that yourself, you really can't be telling people to change their finance goals. Seeing what other Kickstarters do is not research.
This sort of stuff only confuses people around you, and causes more negativity toward responsible and accurate goals, and thus turns people away from THE BEST and SAFEST projects they could possibly back.
@Professor - Hey buddy! Good to see you again. Speaking of Jamey Stegmaier, he liked our goal, our investment, and our transparency regarding our investment so much that he even featured it on his blog here: http://stonemaiergames.com/4-current-kickstarter-projects-with-unique-st...
Gosh I hope this clears things up for a few people. I find myself talking about this at least 5 times a year somewhere. I hope I've converted a few more to a financially responsible mindset here regarding the reality behind funding goals.
Best to all!
John