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Questions about card game production

6 replies [Last post]
Mon, 05/15/2006 - 14:43
LarryZ
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Joined: 12/31/1969

Hi All. After receiving some encouraging feedback from a game agent, I'm moving closer to self-producing a game that I developed, and I need some production advice. I like to think of my game as a more sophisicated, and more interactive version of Uno. It is targeted at families and non-gamers, or as a very light and quick filler game that accomodates large groups.

The game requires 162 cards with full color artwork, a single sheet of paper for the rules, and a box. What I need is advice on what my best production options are, since I now need to fill out forms to get quotations from various manufacturers. Obviously I'd like to keep costs down, but not to the point that people will say that the components are unacceptable. The agent suggests a target retail price of $10-$13.

I apprecate any advice on the following matters:

1) Corners. It seems like rounded is the best way to go since the cards will get banged around a lot.

2) Arrangement of cards in the box (which dictates box dimensions). It seems as though I can have three decks of 54, or two decks of 81. I'd be interested to know if people feel that one is better than the other, and why.

3) Tuck box vs. Two-piece box. I know that there are pros and cons to each, and I'm wondering what the consensus is. I'm leaning towards two piece, out of fear that if the game is handled by young people, a tuck box is more likely to rip and then be useless.

4) Bleed. Any comments on whether the cards should have a bleed all the way to the edge, or just white borders? I think that a bleed makes for a nicer look, but I'm not sure about the cost factor.

5) Paper stock for cards. I need to choose between one sided or two sided coating. It seems like two sided is the best choice, even if more expensive. Do any games actually have only one sided coating?

6) Type of coating. This is what I need to the most help with. I can choose Matte, Glossy, or Playing Card. Obviously Matte is the cheapest, but I'm wondering if reviewers will then say that the card construction is "cheap". I'd be interested to know people's opinions on the matter.

7) Card divider vs. Card Tray. It seems as though a card tray like the one in Bohnanza would be best, but another option would just be a cardboard card divider of sorts. Any suggestions? I know that I personally get frustrated with a game whose components are hard to take out and put away.

8) Box coating. I can choose Matte, Glossy, Satin, and Linen Textured. I guess that I'm not even certain as to what the standard is. Are most game boxes Matte, and are the others considered "special" and unnecessary for a low-cost game?

Thanks in advance for any comments and suggestions. I'm "flying blind" here, so I'll take all the help that I can get.

--Larry

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Fri, 05/19/2006 - 13:44
#1
ArtofWarLLC
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Questions about card game production

This is my first post!

I am also in a very similar situation with my card game. So I hope that this thread gets some good responses.

I hope to be a usefull and productive member of this forum, thanks.

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Fri, 05/19/2006 - 15:56
#2
FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Re: Questions about card game production

I don't have most of the answers, but I have a few clues, anyway:

LarryZ wrote:
1) Corners. It seems like rounded is the best way to go since the cards will get banged around a lot.

If you're going with a professional card printer, the die will have rounded corners by default. Shoudn't cost any more and is definitely better.

Quote:
2) Arrangement of cards in the box (which dictates box dimensions). It seems as though I can have three decks of 54, or two decks of 81. I'd be interested to know if people feel that one is better than the other, and why.

Most professional card printers print in a 5 x 11-up sheet, for a total of 55 cards per deck. The machines are built to automatically shrink wrap each 55-card deck separately. Anything else will probably cost more, though that doesn't mean it's not worthwhile, depending on your situation.

Quote:
3) Tuck box vs. Two-piece box. I know that there are pros and cons to each, and I'm wondering what the consensus is. I'm leaning towards two piece, out of fear that if the game is handled by young people, a tuck box is more likely to rip and then be useless.

I think telescoping (two-piece) boxes are way, way nicer, but they're certainly also more expensive. If your card game doesn't sell for a cheap enough price, you're not going to sell as many games, but then who knows how many more will buy if the quality seems high?

Quote:
4) Bleed. Any comments on whether the cards should have a bleed all the way to the edge, or just white borders? I think that a bleed makes for a nicer look, but I'm not sure about the cost factor.

Most card games do not bleed not so much due to cost but because during shuffling and handling the edges of cards tend to get slightly nicked. If there's ink out to the edge, over time the cards will become "marked," purposefully or not. The early sets of Magic: The Gathering used a black border, but that was quickly changed once it became apparent why everyone else was using a paper-colored one.

Quote:
5) Paper stock for cards. I need to choose between one sided or two sided coating. It seems like two sided is the best choice, even if more expensive. Do any games actually have only one sided coating?

If the cards are held in the hand, they really need to be C2S (coated two sides), as hand sweat will warp them badly otherwise.

Quote:
6) Type of coating. This is what I need to the most help with. I can choose Matte, Glossy, or Playing Card. Obviously Matte is the cheapest, but I'm wondering if reviewers will then say that the card construction is "cheap". I'd be interested to know people's opinions on the matter.

At a professional-level shop it would quite suprise me if matte was cheaper than glossy, since it's just an extra ink either way. The satin finished often used on cards is certainly ideal and will feel the most professional. A gloss coat will quickly become smeared and fingerprinty if you're using smooth stock (though ideally you're using a linen stock).

Quote:
8) Box coating. I can choose Matte, Glossy, Satin, and Linen Textured. I guess that I'm not even certain as to what the standard is. Are most game boxes Matte, and are the others considered "special" and unnecessary for a low-cost game?

Linen textured is what makes a game look really professional in a hobby game environment (game-store-games, all the German publisher use it for telescoping boxes), but a gloss or satin finish is fairly common in the toy-store-game world.

Hopefully some self-published folks will come forward on this stuff. My knowledge is all from a professional printing background and what I've learned of board and card game printing since then: I've not published a game myself.

-- Matthew

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Fri, 05/19/2006 - 16:16
#3
VeritasGames
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Joined: 08/01/2008
Re: Questions about card game production

FastLearner wrote:
I don't have most of the answers, but I have a few clues, anyway:

Most card games do not bleed not so much due to cost but because during shuffling and handling the edges of cards tend to get slightly nicked. If there's ink out to the edge, over time the cards will become "marked," purposefully or not. The early sets of Magic: The Gathering used a black border, but that was quickly changed once it became apparent why everyone else was using a paper-colored one.

I believe that it does tend to cost somewhat more to make a full bleed game (more wasted paper since you have a disposable trim area around the cards) and Magic does in fact still use black borders.

Magic occasionally switches to white for reprints or general editions, but for most sets they have a black border as do tons of other games.

Almost all tournament Magic players play in sleeves anyway except for some sealed deck or draft games. For constructed play, sleeves are the way to go since Magic has such outrageous rules on what counts as a "marked" card, that to play with anything less than relatively new sleeves is not worth your while (at least at bigger tournaments).

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Fri, 05/19/2006 - 16:24
#4
FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Questions about card game production

Wow, I thought Magic gave those up ages ago. Whaddya know?

On bleed, yes, bleeds often cost more as a general rule, but a lot depends on how it's being printed. A lot. For example, if on the playing-card dies the cards all butt up against each other, it will definitely cost more for a bleed (because they'll have to use another die), but if it already has space between the cards, it will cost the same either way. Similarly with game rules, for example: if they're being printed on a full-sheet press then there's a ton of paper waste either way and a bleed won't cost any more than no bleed. If, on the other hand, they're being printed on a smaller press (or could be) where the press sheet size is the same as the finished product, bleed will cost more because they'll have to use a larger press.

A print buyer or good graphic designer can tell whether the printer should be charging more for a given service by asking the right questions about printing methods, presses, etc. Broadly, bleeds cost more, but it depends so very much on the printer and his presses that its one of those things that can go either way.

-- Matthew

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Fri, 05/19/2006 - 18:44
#5
LarryZ
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Questions about card game production

I appreciate the replies. This was very helpful. I'm a bit confused about what exactly a textured linen box is. Could anyone give an example of a well known game that has one? I was thinking that for my game, a typical two-piece box would be fine, like the kind for Settlers or Puerto Rico, or whatever, and I assumed that such a thing was just considered to be a matte finish. But I'm not certain. I appreciate any insight on the matter.

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Fri, 05/19/2006 - 19:10
#6
FastLearner
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Joined: 12/31/1969
Questions about card game production

Puerto Rico has a textured linen box. Any box that upon close examination looks like it's covered in cloth (though it's paper with a linen finish) is a textured linen box.

-- Matthew

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