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Reality check for myself please help

11 replies [Last post]
Anonymous

Ok

Here is the scenario.....

I am done with my daughters game and testing it. I sent a couple pitches out well about 20 to be closer.

I got replies which made it sound good but no takers. Then I got a taker IF i self publish and they would carry it for distributing.

Now yes this is a good thing to get the game out there BUT since I am new is it really all that tough to get someone to distribute a game if your self publishing??? Or is this just a normal situation that can happen all the time?

I dont know to be excited as the game is going to be out there or just relaxed as this is nothing special since I am self publishing.

Also since self publishing how many should I make for a first run?
How do I determine the price to retail at for I can negotiate a deal out with the distributor?

I figure this game would sell probably in Walmart for 14.99 or anywhere else for no higher than that.

When I send the games do I also show them I have 4 sets ready for the expansion of the game too??

Please someone with some experience help me on this. I dont want to lose my shirt here but not looking to make a million either just a plain attempt showing my children that if they put their minds to it that anything is possible for the little guys.

Also going to start an LLC for them and put this and all their games under it. I would need to speak to a web designer though for this as I know nothing but sales and negotiating and plastic industry.

Anonymous
Reality check for myself please help

Just checked Email and have an offer to produce in Hong Kong if they can show at Las Vegas show August 16-18 KenFait Expo Booth?????

Never heard of anything like this ....

Anyone????????????????????

jwarrend
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Joined: 08/03/2008
Re: Reality check for myself please help

leadingedge wrote:

I am done with my daughters game and testing it.

Haven't you only been working on this game for less than a month? And you're done testing it already? Are you sure?

Quote:

Now yes this is a good thing to get the game out there BUT since I am new is it really all that tough to get someone to distribute a game if your self publishing???

I don't think it's that tough. It's a business arrangement: they take care of getting the game to a retailer for you, and you give them a piece of the action.

Quote:
Please someone with some experience help me on this. I dont want to lose my shirt here but not looking to make a million either just a plain attempt showing my children that if they put their minds to it that anything is possible for the little guys.

I'm sorry for how this is going to sound, but I think what you're going to end up showing them is that making game publication decisions too hastily leads to a garage full of unsold games. In my opinion, the best lesson you can teach your kids is about the fun of gaming and the satisfaction of having designed a fun game that friends and family like. Turning into a business is a whole different ball game, and in my opinion, isn't necessarily the best end result of the process. Putting dollar signs in their eyes is going to raise false expectations in them, and may sour them to the whole hobby if the sales part crashes and burns.

I urge you to read Tom Vasel's recent interview with Jim Doherty of Eight Foot Llama games. It's here. In particular, check out this section:

JimDoherty wrote:
So if you're really thinking about printing 2,500 copies of your game, I might suggest you privately consider the following questions. You certainly don't have to answer each one with an overwhelming, "Yes!!" But your potential business has a much better chance if you (or your team) can answer a lot of these questions affirmatively, and with enthusiasm. You could even rate your answers...

On a scale of 1-10, how much do you agree with the following statements:
(1=Not at all, 10=Completely)
- I have started a serious business before.
- I have business training.
- I've done extensive research into the game business. I know who all the companies are, what they make, and why my product is distinctly different from theirs.
- I am at least 90% sure there is a significant national/international demand for my game.
- I have $20,000 of cash lying around; and if I lost every penny, that would not stress me out.
- I can easily devote 20 hours a week to the business.
- I can easily travel 20 days per year for the business.
- I am a people-person; I really enjoy talking socially with strangers.
- I don't take rejection seriously or personally.
- I enjoy salesmanship, marketing and self-promotion.
- Bureaucracy does not bother me (government interaction, customs, taxes, etc.).
- Minutiae does not bother me (inventory valuation, counting receipts, data entry, etc.).
- I'm comfortable when critical things are completely out of my control (your game printer, your convention organizers, your contractors, your lawyer, anyone you hire to help you out).
- I don't get frustrated easily.
- I can keep a sense of humor no matter what happens.
- I can do all of the above while balancing my real job, family, and friends for at least 3 years, which is about the earliest you can hope to break even in your business.

That's 16 questions off the top of my head. If you rate yourself on these, you'd probably want to be over 100 total or else you might not enjoy starting a game publishing business enough to make it worthwhile -- and even then, you have to consider all the financial risks very seriously.

This is just my opinion, but I think you need to slow waaaay down. Selling games is difficult. Do you know for sure that there are people out there who want to buy the game? Have you played it with people other than friends and family? Have folks played the game without you being there to explain the rules?

I wish you the best of luck, and take my advice or leave it, but I really think that there's no need to rush. A great game will sell, but there's a lot of legwork to do first to be sure that your game is in that category (and there's nothing wrong if it's not. Again, you and your family like it, and that's a worthy accomplishment).

-Jeff

Verseboy
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
Slow down

I have to say I'm with Jeff on this. The interest is intriguing and gratifying, but the risk is off the charts if you're forced to rush to decisions on some of these things.

If you're going to self-publish, then you darn well better know how many you can sell and at what price point you can sell them and what it will cost you, both per unit and total. And if you're not sure how many you can sell, then your total cost better be an amount of money you can afford to cut up and flush down the toilet, just in case you've missed your estimate of the potential market.

You can gain better control over those numbers if you pull back now and take the time to do the research. In blind tests how does this game rate? What do comparable games sell for? How many will you have to produce in order to sell your game for a competitive price?

Pursuing a dream is worth something, but at some point the risk exceeds the dream. At what dollar point does the risk outweigh the benefit? That's a question you need to answer and not jump until you know you can stay below that threshold.

I hope you're able to do it on this game. All I'm saying is don't be railroaded into moving before you're ready. If it's a good game, you'll get more nibbles when you're better able to answer some of these questions.

Good luck whatever you do.

Steve

Anonymous
more thoughts???

Well after sending off and getting a few more replies I have decided I am going to have to self publish.

I have to produce more than 500 for one distributor and anoter company which has been suggested since it is more in the educational sector got back to me and wants the rules and a prototype sent.

Quote from email "you can send over a prototype for testplay to our Corporate
Offices. Normally we ask for up to 6 - 8 weeks to fully review your
game
submission, however, we could get back to you in much less time.
"

That made my decision for me. With speaking to a couple members from here on the telephone and how thye went about doing it for their first game and pricing it out. I am going to do more homework and see how to cut costs in production and get the best quotes for each piece neede and run a very tight ship on it as with the interest I got back I am going forward. Thank you for your replies and input.

By no means am I done considering thoughts and input from anyone here. I appreciate all that has been said and see the forewarning on the wall from you and appreciate greatly the concerns.

Thanks again.

FastLearner
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
Reality check for myself please help

FYI, 6 to 8 weeks is extremely reasonable. Some publishers take a year to respond.

Most designers have many games in the works at the same time, including multiple designs out at publishers.

-- Matthew

zaiga
Offline
Joined: 12/31/1969
Reality check for myself please help

Six to eight weeks for a submission review is very, very, very reasonable. You could always them send a copy of your prototype. Their comments and insights might prove invaluable, even when you decide to self publish.

It's understandable that you are excited about the game, but really, why the rush?

Anonymous
Reality check for myself please help

This is a SECOND response not rushing to publish for them BUT to supply the distributor.

I am sending them the prototype as I can wait that long for a response as it would take that long to make and arrange any to be built for them anyways.

Trying to learn and did NOT expect ANY rsponse at all for 90 days but received 8 in 3 days out of 20 or so.

jwarrend
Offline
Joined: 08/03/2008
Reality check for myself please help

leadingedge wrote:

Trying to learn and did NOT expect ANY rsponse at all for 90 days but received 8 in 3 days out of 20 or so.

Hmm, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. I suspect that I could probably think of 20 publishers if I tried, but it would be a bit of a stretch. Do you mean that you pitched your game to 20 publishers, or that you contacted 20 printers and/or distributors for quotes on having them print/distribute the game for you? A publisher is a company that will handle all aspects of the production: you give them the game idea, and they will design artwork for it, print it, sell it under their brand name, and give you a percent of the royalties. Do you really mean that you contacted 20 companies like that? Which ones?

-Jeff

Anonymous
Reality check for myself please help

I contacted about 20 or so people to quote me to manufacture and if they did have capabilities to do the from concept to finished goods ready for distribution I asked for more details. I also asked if they would be interested in carrying it with a little more tact than that but short and simple pitch to explain the basics f the game and parts in it and get it distributed. I did not try to sell it to them only make it and distribute for a piece of the pie or to have made and I get a distributor on my own.

I then pitched about 10 distributors as well from refferals from these leads and some that were posted in the forum and ones listed online with submissions available from the a google search. I also pitched ones which were taking submissions that were listed on a post here in this forum.

I also went to an international directory board that I use for importing and exporting for manufacturing companies to pitch to other companies to make it for me which are all over the place. Doing a search for each component in the game for the best price and availability.

I have not had one say they would pick up my game and do all the work for it as in artwork, distribution, production,advertsing, marketing and sell it and give me a piece of the pie.That would be a dream come true with no money out of pocket and a residual income from it after it takes off.

I dont think that is even feasible but if you have contacts for that than please share as I would be more than willing to split it with you.

Mike

jwarrend
Offline
Joined: 08/03/2008
Reality check for myself please help

leadingedge wrote:

I have not had one say they would pick up my game and do all the work for it as in artwork, distribution, production,advertsing, marketing and sell it and give me a piece of the pie.That would be a dream come true with no money out of pocket and a residual income from it after it takes off.

I dont think that is even feasible but if you have contacts for that than please share as I would be more than willing to split it with you.

Well, of course, such companies exist -- look at any game in your closet, or at Wal Mart. Each one was produced by a publisher. You're attempting to become publisher yourself, but another common route to getting a game produced is to find an established publisher who is interested in the game and convince them to handle the publication for you. Think of it in terms of book publishing: writers don't often (ever?) handle the printing/marketing/distribution of their books; they just write the books, and publishers handle the business aspects. The game industry is very similar.

There are downsides to using a publisher: less control over the product, less percentage of income. You might look through the archives in the discussion forums for more discussion about this.

As to which publisher to submit the game to, the best bet is usually to do your homework and find out which companies have games that are similar to the one you're producing (e.g. don't submit a Candyland-like game to "Nothing but Wargames, Inc."). One way to find such companies is to use the 'Geek -- www.boardgamegeek.com. Do a search for games that you know are similar to yours, and find out who published them. That should give you some starting points for publishers to contact.

I continue to think you're making decisions too hastily, but as I've said that several times now, I'll trust that I've made my point and let the cards fall where they may.

Good luck.

-Jeff

Anonymous
Reality check for myself please help

Yes I believe you are right and I have a clear understanding of the too hastily made decisions.

I was not trying to move this quickly and not positive I am going to go ahead at this rate. Thats why I posted this thread as it seemed super fast for me just coming to this industry and was curious if this is the normal fast pace things move at.

I was mainly looking at getting a professional prototype made and was going to start pitching after a few conventions under my belt. I still need to do ALOT more homework before signing anything yet.

Thanks for your brutual yet needed honesty. I will only learn from mistakes but prefer to have them be someone elses and I learn from them. :lol:

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