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Build your own [insert game genre here]

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larienna
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I was thinking of designing a monopoly type game for fun. But there are many valid design choices for this kind of game, and there is not a particular flavor or objective that I was looking for.

So I was thinking, what if I could make a kind of "Build your own monopoly game" (or a similar title). So it would work a bit like a piece pack designed for a specific type of game, in this case, managing properties. You could change the board layout, you can change the rules. The tile information and the card content is generic enough to allow modifications. There will be for example, no special text on the cards.

The game would come with a rule set that works. Maybe some alternate rule set. But if you want to change anything, suggestions will be made in the rule book. But you are still allowed to design your own.

That concept could be applied to other game genre like Space Opera, civilization, etc. Especially genre which have multiple games.

What are the benefits to design such game:

  • The balance does not have to be top notch.
  • Components has to be generic, so easier to design.
  • Could give a game design experience to the players.
  • The players could come up with very clever way to use the game.

Problems:

  • The designs that comes with the game could be too weak.
  • too many choices of rules is like not enough.
  • Many people who do not like variants would not modify the game
  • Card effects would only hold a name and an artwork. The rules of the cards will be in the rules or on a reference card. The cross-referencing could be annoying.
lewpuls
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Unfortunately, the average

Unfortunately, the average board game players nowadays lacks the initiative to play the same game different ways. They're used to playing it exactly how the publisher tells them to - until there's an expansion, then they play that way. A "build your own" game might be regarded as confusing.

There was a Euroish game, designed by a well-known designer of that genre (cannot recall the name) that enabled several hundred different games (the title was a number, the number of possibilities, again do not recall).

I thought about doing this kind of thing in a very limited way for wargames, but too much effort (esp playtesting) for what it amounted to, so I gave up early on.

X3M
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I attempted such game with a

I attempted such game with a wargame where players could combine a set of cards. A body and weapon. But the balance should really not be considered. And you need to assume that players don't know how to do things.

Nowadays, it seems to be all about visuals.
So, while a lot of Risk and Monopoly versions are out there. There are not much games out there with slightly or moderate, different rules.

PS. I dislike the fact that people nowadays are strict with the rules. 1 mistake, and you got a fight instead.
People should consider a change of heart. Restart a game. And decide on an agreement on how a rule is supposed to be implemented.

Might I suggest a flip of a coin for a choice, after explaining the rule as how one interpreteded it?
And the next run, go with how the other player sees it.

Then everyone gets the opportunity to be happy.
Opportunity, since it seems to me that some refuse to take that option.

larienna
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The game you are talking

The game you are talking about is "504". I never played but know about it. I really doubt the designer have played all 504 combination. Not sure if it could actually be a game for me. Players say some combinations are better than others. "Kingdoms" is actually a game that plays differently according to a different card setup. I have played this one, at least 1 version of it.

Yes, people are very strict, I am proposing variants for 1846 and receive a lot of backlash. My motto is that if I can have multiple train game with the same components, it's a good thing. But they do not see it this way.

I think my monopoly game could work in a digital environment. Making the game works like a toy. People design their board, select rules, run thousands of simulations and look at the results. A bit like a physics simulation game. The idea would be to make people experiment game design without necessarily playing the game.

questccg
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I tried this with a Pokémon-variant

I had this GLORIOUS idea of having a Pokémon-like game which would have a combination of cards that would allow a player to combine multiple cards into a single "Attacking" Unit. Some of the ideas were that you have a MAIN CARD and to each SIDE (Left & Right) you could "equip" another card which could be a Weapon or some kind of Missile System or a Cooling System, etc.

But I got frustrated that I would NOT be able to AI Generate the "Weapons" and Items ... Sure the MAIN CARDS I could get a bunch of Robots... But the reality was that the other cards would prove to be DIFFICULT if not IMPOSSIBLE...

So I said F-it and re-designed the game to work differently.

It was for "Battle Botz" in one or two of the earlier iterations. I since have designed TEAM PLAY now which works with a Stack of cards (Depth) and creates a more powerful Robot if you have multiple units supporting the MAIN CARD. Similar but at the same time DIFFERENT.

There are always reasons why we make the decisions that we make, in my case it was a question of ART and the production of ART assets for the game. Couldn't know anyone who would be able to draw the items and still keep them sufficiently realistic to match the MAIN CARDS.

Always needing to make compromises...

larienna
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Take a look at the Hecatomb

Take a look at the Hecatomb card game, you create abominations by combining monsters together. It's similar to your idea.

I guess for CCG, you could allow player to design their cards and see for themselves the impact on the game. Still, you will need some AI algorithm to try making decks out of the cards designed by the player. I think it could be done with game simulations and hill climbing algorithm. Not sure it would yield efficient results.

questccg
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Augmented Reality

larienna wrote:
Take a look at the Hecatomb card game, you create abominations by combining monsters together. It's similar to your idea.

I looked at a Zee Garcia Video about Hecatomb ... And while the idea in that game is to STACK cards one on top of the other to form stronger abominations, in "Battle Botz" you have a "Stack" which is like a queue (from Left to Right) and the maximum size is six (6) Robots. It may(!) change each Round. It depends on your Leader and its Followers. Some Robots rely on "Dice Rolling" which can affect the end-result of the "Stack".

Getting back to the earlier iteration... It was VERY specific:

questccg wrote:
You play your Robot and ATTACH up to two (2) cards to its sides. This is more like @X3M's idea of have a Body + Weapon. And like I said, I TRIED to do this but found that the concept would be too hard to implement so I changed the way the game plays (in the more recent versions of the prototype).

TBH I have not seen a CCG or TCG where you could COMBINE cards to either side of the main card and that's how you can have more variations on the concept than in the case of something like Hecatomb. It was VERY different compared to what I've seen in Zee's Video. Nothing like Magic: the Gathering and closer to Pokémon than anything else.

Now the game is dramatically different. All you need is to buy ONE (1) Booster Pack and you get six (6) Cards and that is enough for ONE (1) "Stack". You only need six (6) Cards to play the game. Obviously you might want to buy like 5 or 6 Booster Packs to optimize the "Stack" of six (6) Cards you REALLY WANT!

larienna wrote:
I guess for CCG, you could allow player to design their cards and see for themselves the impact on the game. Still, you will need some AI algorithm to try making decks out of the cards designed by the player

Well I believe in Augmented Reality, a concept that allows you to VIEW a Card and see a 3D Version of the card. See this AD for an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTcI6f92qfs

I was thinking that based on whatever you WRITE or COMBINE, you could get a 3D version of that "Monster" or Abomination and its entirely based on what you COMBINE.

Of course in MY version, all you needed was 3 Cards: 1 "core" + 2 "Options".

larienna wrote:
I think it could be done with game simulations and hill climbing algorithm. Not sure it would yield efficient results.

I'm more of the mindset allow "customization" or "personalization" than actually make things that are SO DIFFERENT you need to figure out HOW(?) they can work together or against one another.

Like having a TEAM in "Battle Botz" makes for a STRONGER "Attacking Unit" and this MAY vary from one turn to the next. I say "MAY" because you can use Cards which are STATIC in value and don't rely on RNG (Random Number Generation: eg. Dice) and then you have a more STABLE type of Team of Units to battle with.

So whereas in MOST games you start with the WEAKEST "Monster" and build to the "Strongest" one (and as Zee says: "Usually once you have a strong abomination, you usually win the game..." Battle Botz goes the OPPOSITE direction:

questccg wrote:
You can START with a "Stack" of six (6) Cards and a "Depth = 6" and therefore your team is as STRONG as it will ever get. Gradually over time, your start to lose Cards and your "Stack" diminishes ... All the way down to one (1) Card. The winner is the first player to destroy his/her opponent's entire "Stack" of six (6) Cards.

This too is DIFFERENT. Most games WORK the OTHER way around: Weakest to Strongest. In my case it is the OPPOSITE. And that too I find to be an ORIGINAL concept. I'm not saying it's not the most AMAZING concept out there... But it is pretty original TBH.

questccg
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If you DON'T rely on RNG (eg. Dice)...

The results are more predictable in terms of overall "COMBINED" Power. In those specific cases, the results are more STABLE and usually makes for the initial ROUNDS to be more TENSE ... Because two (2) TEAMS are battling each other and that extra bit of complexity yields a very DRAMATIC result.

Quote:
Your first few ROUNDS are probably the most significant because you have pre-established an ORDER for your Cards.

While this is TRUE ... You may need to worry about Cards in the Middle of the "Stack" which are like 3 or 4 ... As opposed to extremes of (5-6) or (1-2) which may be super strong or super weak.

I find it an INTERESTING "paradigm" that you go from STRONGEST to WEAKEST as opposed to ALMOST ALL other games where it's the OTHER way around. I am working with "Robots" eg. "Battle Botz" (BB) but this could also work for a Super Heroes Theme too...

Maybe I can do like in Pokémon: Have a Coin Toss to determine the Starting Player. This could MAYBE(?) have a significant impact on the match-up. Why? Because if your Team is SO POWERFUL they can DEFEAT an opponent in 1-Turn, well then it's a downward spiral from 6 to 5 to 4 to 3 to 2 to 1... As is a very predictable loss... I'm just saying. TBD.

IDK... There may be a need for more rules to enforce some kind of throttling.

questccg
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Better depth of STRATEGY TBH...

You can PLAN for a "Depth = 3" and only reveal 3 Cards to your opponent. Those 3 Cards could be "Average to Strong" and then when defeated, you have a 2nd Batch of 3 more Cards that are "Average to Strong". You can mix things up to make it seem like you are WEAKER but in truth, you have a 2nd Pick-Up which is way more powerful than your opponent's 3 or 4 Cards in their "Stack".

That could be another way to play too... Not sure what will be possible, I will need to do some more playtesting once the Cards are designed. ATM all I have is IDEAS which as we all know are "worthless" and rely on execution to see how effective the ideas really are.

So I need to wait until playtesting gets done to affirm if this direction is solid or not.

Note #1: And I have ONE (1) VERY STRICT RULE: "No Healing". You cannot in any way shape of form HEAL a "Robot". Once you lose Armor Points it is what it is and you need to do the best you can with whatever you are left remaining with. This is the ONLY RULE that I plan to enforce in the game's design!

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