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Dead Steam - Post Apocalyptic train building card game

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questccg
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Think about DOMINION... The Grandfather of Deck-Building!

I'm not going to cite rules as per what you have, I'm just going to explain the whole Micro Deck IDEA.

So first phase is building your Train. Next you begin the TRAVEL phase by using a "Micro Deck" (This is like 10 cards to start your Deck -- Always the SAME 10 cards by default).

On top of your TRAIN (above) there are PILES of SORTED cards. The CARDBACKS and/or colors vary per pile and when you DRAW from a certain pile, you don't exactly know what you've drawn but that card goes into your DISCARD PILE.

Each PILE of cards represents a certain TYPE of card: Start, Cargo, Crew, and Destination. (This is embryonic and just ideas ATM)

Each PLAYER DRAWS ONE (1) Card from the PILE of their CHOICE and then the 10 STARTING cards plus the cards drawn by the players form the STARTING DECK of the "Micro Deck". The train is now in motion and travelling. Player #1 draws the topmost card from the "Micro Deck" and proceeds to RESOLVE IT.

If it is CARGO, you can place the CARGO card on top of one goods transportation car and that car is now full with "cargo" (let's say CORN).

If it is CREW, you can take on passengers if you have a passenger car and you can earn more money if you have a Bar Car where the passengers can socialize during the trip (for example). Alternatively you can HIRE "Mercenaries" to protect your Train during it's journey. Let say you got "3 Passengers which need to travel '4' stops." You put that card into the DISCARD and then next player draws the NEXT "Micro Deck" Card from the TOP.

Each card you DRAW is a Route Marker and is ONE (1) STOP.

If a CARD is DRAW and it is "Add +1 START card" or "Add +1 CREW card" as the ACTION, you do as the card says and place that card into the DISCARD PILE. And then you proceed to DRAW ONE (1) Card from your "Micro Deck" and resolve it as much as possible.

If it's a DESTINATION and you need "3 STOPS" it means you need to DRAW and RESOLVE "3 DESTINATION CARDS". If you feel like you don't have ENOUGH "Destination" Cards, you can DRAFT from the "DESTINATION" PILE more destinations to ADD to your "Micro Deck".

When you reach the END of the "Micro Deck" you take all the cards in the DISCARD an shuffle them and then THAT becomes your NEW "Micro Deck" with all the extra cards that were drafted from the piles on the board.

***

That covers the "Micro Deck", Route Markers and EVENTS. But each PILE has it's own CHALLENGES that need to be overcome.

That's where the IDEA of DICE and a "Tactical" Layer would act as a PUZZLE to open up the game to some RISK and CHALLENGES.

***

I guess for now... I won't discuss the "Tactical" Layer just YET... Let's see if you understood the "Micro Deck" CONCEPT and how it can serve as a WAY to TRAVEL from START to FINISH with CARGO and CREW.

If you have any questions ASK AWAY. Because this is only an ADDITIONAL LAYER you ADD to your game. I don't think it needs to affect the game in-so-far that it is something EXTRA to add to enable the JOURNEY.

Let me know if you understand or need further explanation...

Note #1: This is just EMBRYONIC ideas. Things you can take and see if they work with what you ALREADY have. Take them as IDEAS and see if you can ADAPT them to your game or not.

You may need to CHANGE the PILES or figure out alternatives to them that work better for YOUR game. Again I'm just sharing with you some thoughts about HOW you can TRAVEL without a BOARD...

Tbone
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Isle of Trains

What you have described sounds a lot more like Isle of Trains. It actually has a board! And you build trains and put goods on trains etc. Much closer to your design actually (much closer to what you may prefer in your game).

So, to your idea, you have made it cleaer for sure what you are trying to go for. Dominion deck building with a bit of push your luck when going on the journey. Bad stuff + good stuff get draw and you need to deal with it.

I do not like the idea of players having to deal with another deck, another system, another game haha! It just really seems like two games mashed together into one. It would never work; it is simply too much.

That being said, I think there is still room in this game for variants and expansions. I could see there being a variant where you attempt to build three trains and you take all three on their journey and that is the game. Now, no idea what you would do if one of those trains isn't valid, but hopefully at least one is! Here you could have a personal journey deck (however, building it like you described was like nails on the chalk board! SO MANY CARDS). But again, this almost sounds like a second expansion if I'm honest (if the game is even that successful).

What I am heavily considering is that Journey Deck I desccribed; maybe even in the base game, who knows. Very simple addition that would add an incredible amount of replay value and fun! Now, all of what you said above did stike an idea of possibly putting the shipments/raids/events etc. into the players deck themselves. Sounds cool to draw into a random raid that you know you will need to deal with. But putting shipments in the deck would... again... take away from the experience (players need to see the shipments while building their warehouse deck so they can plan and strategize, if they were randomly put in each deck it would take that away).

Another thing to consider is that the game is already VERY ISOLATING as a player. You pretty much feel like you're doing your own thing. Besides defense. You will compare the defense of each of your trains with everyone elses and this determines who gets raided. Besides this, it feels a little bit like a multiplayer-solo. So, to add another element that would cause players to "do their own thing/their own missions" would not be advised.

I really don't mind chatting about design possibilities; it is fun. But there is very little room for Dead Steam as it is to add anymore systems. Anymore systems and it would burst; very unlikely that a publisher would consider it. In fact, currently, I don't think Dead Steam would get picked up by a publisher. It is already a bit to "sloppy". Most of the game is simultaneous and this leads to a bit of weirdness (players doing things faster than other players, no accountability for actions etc.) This problem and the difficulty of explaining the game straight from the rules are Dead Steam's biggest hurdles currently.

questccg
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Additional Systems - Captain she's going to BLOW!!!

Tbone wrote:
I really don't mind chatting about design possibilities; it is fun. But there is very little room for Dead Steam as it is to add anymore systems...

No worries, I don't have time to spend in making another game either. I have made the concept as clear as I could possible put (in terms of an extra system on top).

Tbone wrote:
What you have described sounds a lot more like Isle of Trains. It actually has a board! And you build trains and put goods on trains etc. Much closer to your design actually (much closer to what you may prefer in your game).

I was looking for more "Mad Max" in wilder/grittier car designs like in Dead Steam. Haha!

Tbone wrote:
So, to your idea, you have made it clearer for sure what you are trying to go for. Dominion deck building with a bit of push your luck when going on the journey. Bad stuff + good stuff get draw and you need to deal with it.

Yup at least I was clear in my explanations.

Tbone wrote:
I do not like the idea of players having to deal with another deck, another system, another game haha! It just really seems like two games mashed together into one. It would never work; it is simply too much.

Fair enough. At least I explained what I meant. I don't like games with BIG BOARDS... They remind me too much of "Stonemaier Games". Jamey centers all his games around HUGE boards... Part of HIS personal marketing touch. He doesn't waste time with smaller games even if they are very novel.

Tbone wrote:
I could see there being a variant where you attempt to build three trains and you take all three on their journey and that is the game. Now, no idea what you would do if one of those trains isn't valid, but hopefully at least one is!

Maybe others appear MAGICALLY when the main one breaks down and needs repair. I mean it is a GAME. It doesn't have to make 100% sense. Plenty of people would understand the purpose of "Secondary and Tertiary Trains" (Just in case)!

Tbone wrote:
Now, all of what you said above did strike an idea of possibly putting the shipments/raids/events etc. into the players deck themselves. Sounds cool to draw into a random raid that you know you will need to deal with. But putting shipments in the deck would... again... take away from the experience (players need to see the shipments while building their warehouse deck so they can plan and strategize, if they were randomly put in each deck it would take that away).

TBH I don't know @Tbone because I have not read all your rules. I guess I can do this sometime this week (in between stuff) and then I can get a better clue of how your existing game works. I'll TRY do that... Trust me I have a good eye for clever games and this one has some COOL uniqueness.

Tbone wrote:
Another thing to consider is that the game is already VERY ISOLATING as a player. You pretty much feel like you're doing your own thing. Besides defense. You will compare the defense of each of your trains with everyone else's and this determines who gets raided. Besides this, it feels a little bit like a multiplayer-solo. So, to add another element that would cause players to "do their own thing/their own missions" would not be advised.

One way around this is making the ENTIRE game "Cooperative". And then as you suggested ... "Go until the players bust..." And that could make the game VERY Rogue-like and do the best to score a RECORD (again rogue-like in playstyle).

Tbone wrote:
Anymore systems and it would burst; very unlikely that a publisher would consider it. In fact, currently, I don't think Dead Steam would get picked up by a publisher. It is already a bit to "sloppy". Most of the game is simultaneous and this leads to a bit of weirdness (players doing things faster than other players, no accountability for actions etc.) This problem and the difficulty of explaining the game straight from the rules are Dead Steam's biggest hurdles currently.

If you make it Multi-Player COOPERATIVE each player can choose a ROLE per turn. That role determines what are the type of ACTIONS they take (and maybe an asymmetric ability too... IDK it's another idea!) So something like these:

Train Driver : Person responsible for making starts and stops.
Conductor : Person responsible for the make-up of the train.
Security Guard : Person responsible for safe-guarding the train.
Merchant : Person who deals with products being transported by the train.
etc. etc.

If you can come up with 6 to 8 roles that could be something else to compare. And then you have a MORE FLEXIBLE method of play that opens up the game a bit. And maybe the ROLES are more in response to what the GROUP wants to do but MAYBE there can be two (2) Scoring Systems: one for the overall SCORE/RECORD and one per player who made the most impact on the score... So it's a bit COOPETIVE (COOP but also Head-To-Head a bit...)

Again more ideas for you to dissect. Or how to re-structure the game and open it up to more possibilities, especially when it comes to traveling.

Note #1: So MAYBE (this is ANOTHER idea - I come up with a LOT of them - especially when I like something!) with the ROLES, IF you had a "Micro Deck" you build, well instead of ALWAYS doing the TOPMOST CARD as the next "Event/Route Marker", you choose a ROLE and go ALL THE WAY TO THE NEXT CARD of that CATEGORY!!!

And maybe that can COUNT as "Travel Time".

So if you were the Merchant and took on CORN to be delivered in three (3) turns... And you BY-PASS "4" CARDS in one swoop, you can consider that CORN to be DELIVERED.

Again IDEAS... AND BTW the "skipping of cards" would be something GENIUS in DECK-BUILDING. Especially as it relates to the TRANSPORTATION and TRAVEL.

Let me know what you think of these ideas. I will read the rulebook tonight or tomorrow... Try to get more understanding of what you've GOT already.

Note #2: I've gone through the rulebook... I'm still not 100% clear about how to play. Because I was just reading the rulebook with the intent to see if what was WRITTEN was CLEAR and UNDERSTANDABLE. I will post some additional thoughts in the next comment. That's the best I can do for you. I hope that is good and satisfactory!

Cheers @Tbone.

Tbone
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Great Comments.

Thank you for reading through! Really means a lot thaat you would volunteer your time to something you don't enjoy haha.

Cooperative/competative play is definitely a way that seems natural. I think the pure competative play FEELS better (grittier and fun to try and compete to get more coin). BUT cooperative play is something that would help players learn the game and also include a "beat your highscore" kind of thing. Maybe even a "meet this threshhold to play another round". The only thing here is that the progression really stops at Lvl. 4 cards. So the only way really to simulate this is to start a new game but with something that carries over that feels like you are starting "better". This is my idea for INFINITY RAILS variant.

Your idea about roles. Sounds linked to your micro deck which with your idea of "skipping" cards as distance is interesting. I could see something similar to Galaxy Trucker where you decide how far you think your train can survive and draw that many cards from a journey deck. Not sure how there would be any game (which is why I think you brought up dice; but again, sounds like we are adding another game onto a game) but it is something to think about. The deck would have STOPS (soft destinations -must keep moving- including raids, etc.) and ENDS (Hard destinations -have the option to stop- attractions, etc.).

questccg
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Need to read the rulebook as a "Gamer/Player" not Editor

Tbone wrote:
Thank you for reading through! Really means a lot thaat you would volunteer your time to something you don't enjoy haha...

Don't worry your rules were pretty much clear and I like the CONCEPT so I wanted to learn more. I still have yet read the rules as a "Gamer" (How-To-Play) I only read them as an Editor to see if the rulebook was cohesive. It is... I'll have to take another pass through to understand HOW(?) to play the game.

Like I said, I used the "Editor's" Approach to see if the language was clear or not and took note of some of the ambiguous sentences. I think there were a couple and some completeness was also needed. But overall I'd give you rulebook an 84%... Just some minor fixing and it can be 90%!

I still have to take the perspective of a potential PLAYER ("Gamer") and see what I think about the rules. I'll post back a comment after that fact and give me also some time to think matters thru.

Maybe it may take a few days because there is a freaken Snow Storm and I'm going to have to SHOVEL all the SNOW (like 5+cm)... Ugghhhh! Hate that even WORST! Hehehe,.

Tbone
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Fair enough. I have the game

Fair enough. I have the game on screentop.gg as well. You could fiddle around on there as well.

Dead Steam on screentop.gg

questccg
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No information on screentop.gg

Tbone wrote:
I have the game on screentop.gg as well. You could fiddle around on there as well.

No Rules and cannot play (no play button). I saw CODEX and it has some information and a Play Button... So either your game is PRIVATE or I have to create an account to read and PLAY. Which is BAD... Because the READ part should be for anonymous visitors too... The PLAY could be for people with an account... etc. etc.

Let me know what you plan to do with your game and what information you WANT to SHARE... Cheers!

Note #1: I saw your Movie Game and the Food Game which all are complete with "information" about the game and you can play online. So either Dead Steam is private or it is Login Only... Either way I cannot access it just by browsing the link you provided.

Tbone
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Fixed. It is now public!

Fixed. It is now public! Sorry.

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