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City of Guilds

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Mon, 10/21/2013 - 18:22
Voron
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Hello everybody!

I'm designing a game where every player is the leader of one of the many guilds in a city. I'm thinking of giving it more of a fantasy theme then a realistic theme. Two main themes about cities and guilds are "Magic The Gathering's Ravnica" and "Discworld's Ankmorporkh". At the moment I like the first one a lot more, and it fits my theme of Guild's working together the best. But my problem is that MTG: Ravnica is copyrighted by Wizards of the Coasts, so if I take that theme and want to game published I have to get it to be published at Wizards of the Coast. Or else I have to rename every single thing in the game. So I'm wondering if it is a good thing to keep designing my game with the MTG: Ravnica theme, or change everything at this point in development?

grtz
Voron

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Mon, 10/21/2013 - 18:35
#1
questccg
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Wizards Of the Coast

The problem with some publishers is that they don't accept unsolicited submissions from designers. And Wizards Of the Coast is one such publisher... I believe they only work with an Agent/Broker. Not sure how that works... But I guess the Agent takes a first look at the game based on some criteria given by the publisher and then he determines if the game is something that would interest the Mighty Wizards...

My opinion, go with another "theme" that is not associated with any games (such as Ravnica). That doesn't mean you can't borrow *ideas*. It just means you don't have to pursue a publisher who may not be receptive to your game!

Best of luck with your game!

Note: Here is WOTC Official GAME submission guidelines:

http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Submissions/default.aspx

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Mon, 10/21/2013 - 23:04
#2
BENagy
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You can definitely create a

You can definitely create a guild game without naming one of the guilds Golgari, etc. What mechanics/themes are you using other than names? If it's core philosophies, luckily MTG's Color Pie is ubiquitous enough that you can use them and no problem.

Wizards can't quite copyright mechanical ideas, only names. I wouldn't even get close to opening that legal can of worms if I was you, but still, it's available. And an agent is possible. Wizards is clearly looking that direction increasingly, with all the Lords of Waterdeep, Red Dragon Inn, InnFighting, etc.

I guess we just need more info about what's happening in your project, etc...

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Tue, 10/22/2013 - 04:22
#3
Voron
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If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

My game is a competitive game where non of the players can win 100% on their own. They (mechanically) need the help of other players to reach the top (back-stabbing their allies when the moment is right) It will be mostly based on 4X mechanics, and my own challenge is to keep it fantasy without having it transform into a kingdom-builder. So I decided to change it to Guilds in a City. MTG: Ravnica is the best example of a fantasy world where Guilds have to work together to survive, but with every Guild having their own secret agenda.

Ofcourse I can rewrite the whole backstory and all the names. But now I'm worried that it might look a bit to much like the original source material.

I'm the kind of guy that first thinks of a theme and then makes a mechanic that fits the theme. In my game every guild is completely different from the other guilds. Changing names isn't a problem, but when one of my guilds lives in the Undercity, uses zombies and produces food I might call them the Beggar's Guild, but they are still based of the Golgari. If I make an Architects Guild who can make buildings and upgrades cheaper but have a change of exploding, they are still obiously Izzet. Etc, etc.

Now I'm wondering if people might think my game is just ripoff and that it's highly unoriginal. :/

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Tue, 10/22/2013 - 16:56
#4
questccg
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Hmm...

Well you could make subtle changes... Take the Golgari. Instead of living in the "Undercity", you could make it that they live in ceremonial grounds such as a cemetery and then you can use other undead creatures such as Ghouls, Mummies and Skeletons.

You should be able to *vary* the guilds into other guilds with similarities to Ravnica... But they don't need to be EXACT. Take the Golgari example above, instead of Zombies, we have other undead creatures. Instead of living in the "undercity", they live in ceremonial grounds, etc. Each change you make (it will take some effort) will make your game seem less and less like Ravnica.

You can *re-work* your game to make sometimes substantial changes, other times several small changes which will ultimately change the overall game...

Ravnica has 10 guilds, so maybe your game could have a maximum of 6 guilds (an example). Next you got to think of original guilds for the game. And try not to *think* about Ravnica's guilds. One idea I have, it could be called something like "City of Legends".

Each guild could be based on a Hero's Weapon: Daggers, Swords, Hammer, Axe, Staff and Bow. That's six (6) Guilds. Now each guild has heroes specialized in their weapon of choice. So take Daggers, this could be a guild about the unscrupulous thieves or rogues (because they steal from everyone - even their friends!). Swords could be the guild of the honourable warriors (because they are respectable combatants). Hammer could be the guild of the holy clerics (because they are a bunch of zealots). Axe could be the guild of the savage barbarians (because they love to cut the heads of their enemies), etc.

This is just a sample idea... I'm sure you can think up others if you try.

Another example, "City of Darkness". It's a city that is in the "underground". 6 houses of Dark Elves live in this *mysterious* city. Each house is different from the next... But each house is run by a Beast Master. The Beast Master is a mighty warrior who can control a certain kind of *beast*. For example in one house the Beast Master is able to control Giant Spiders and spider armies...

I'm sure you can think up others and what the objective of each house is...

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Tue, 10/22/2013 - 16:58
#5
Kroz1776
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Pikmin!

I had a similar situation with a book and the game Pikmin. To make a long story short my brother and I had basically created a world of Pikmin where there were kingdoms, tribes, empires, etc, of these tiny creatures. I decided I wanted to write a book about them, so I changed them into different humanoid races to populate the world. Doing this not only "protected" my creation from lawsuit but it opened up new options and ideas that I never had thought of before.

I'd follow Quest's advice and see where it takes your game. It may just be an adventure in waiting.

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Tue, 10/22/2013 - 17:58
#6
questccg
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I had another concept...

I call it "After Dark"... Basically it is a city that is RUN by the undead! During the day the city is a virtual ghost town (nobody around). But when the sun goes down, that's when the Undead come to life!!! And you could have different guilds of undead: vampires, skeletons, ghouls, mummies, wraiths, zombies...

Here is a link to more undead in the D&D universe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undead_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)

I think this concept is pretty cool - a city run by the undead - and at night only!

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Tue, 10/22/2013 - 18:57
#7
Voron
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More concepts! =D

Thanks for the comments! So I guess that changing a lot is indeed the best thing to do.

I especially like that After Dark idea, although I would call it Necropolis (City of the Dead) XD. Different groups of undead working together to stay "alive". Thanks for that idea! Putting it on my list of possible concepts. But before I lock myself down to one single theme, I'll keep thinking of more =D but thanks for the input!

I might first design the rest of the main-mechanics before focusing myself to much on the specific faction/guild mechanics.

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Tue, 10/22/2013 - 23:38
#8
questccg
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Necropolis is cool ... but

Voron wrote:
I especially like that After Dark idea, although I would call it Necropolis (City of the Dead) XD.

You may need to find ANOTHER name. There is already a game called "Necropolis" published in 2013! ( http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/146711/necropolis )...

That kinda sucks... Especially since it is a dominoes game... It's not even a *published* game, it's more of another way to play with dominoes.

You could maybe use a combination of words like: "Necropolis: After Dark". Obviously that means that the game name is original (no conflicts with other games). Or "Necropolis: Enter Darkness". I'm sure you can think of other titles to make a more appropriate name.

BTW, personally, I like the game name "Necropolis: Enter Darkness"... It sounds very good! :D

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Wed, 10/23/2013 - 06:20
#9
Voron
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Necropolis: City of the Damned

That really sounds awesome. I'm even thinking of some other mechanics that can fit that theme. Maybe an unknown random of actions each turn before the sun comes up. And everything that is still outside their crypt 'dies'. But now that I'm thinking of mechanics that fit an undead-city-theme, I can't really see that as a coop/4x game as I'm trying to design. Although that only means I'm now designing 2 games XD
Thanks Quest!

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Wed, 10/23/2013 - 09:17
#10
Kroz1776
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Theme is Important

Theming, in my opinion, is so essential to game design. Just by changing the theme, new ideas for mechanics are spawned in one's mind. This is just proof of the power of theme in a board game design.

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Wed, 10/23/2013 - 09:42
#11
Voron
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So right!

Indeed Kroz, I can't agree more. :)

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