RPG: How to handle key story elements with randomly generated levels?

Fri, 02/10/2023 - 13:10

#1

X3M

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This is how I would do it

Right, so first the maze is generated.
And key locations are placed. But these key locations are still empty.

Then, the program has to see how deep the maze goes. And distribute the story elements in order from start to end. The distance increases with each element. But can be randomly in distance to each other.

They are placed in the key locations.

***

Map generation. You can choose between 2 ways of determining the key location distances to the start.

1.
You simply see how far they are away from the start. This means that if the player has to go side ways, it might take a longer time to reach the next key location.

2.
You have the program take notice of when the key location is generated. This means every part of the maze will get a generation number.

***

Final notice:
Not all key locations have to get a story telling event.
In fact, if the player enters a room that is completely empty. That would be ok too. As long as it doesn't happen too often. Perhaps put in multiple enemies, not just one.

A game that you could look at is Bloodbourne, it has mazes. These are always random at creation. And every level has some sort of rooms with paths between. It is in 3D though. I think you are making a 2D game?

Sat, 02/11/2023 - 20:06

#2

questccg

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I personally LIKE your ideas... They sound good!

larienna wrote:

...I don't need super deep story like Skyrim and Mass Effect. One game that comes to my mind is Diablo (I only played torchlite). I think they have story features located at certain levels of the dungeons and this is what create the story. So I could define that on:

Level 3: You Get a boss, which gives a key item
Level 5: You meet an NPC, to who you must give this key item, to unlock something.

Once the maze is generated, it would put those events somewhere in the generated maze. Is there other ways to do it?

Generation can be fixed per "Quest":

Like "Find the enchanted Gem." to do so you need to search a corpse at (x, y) in the Level "z" to get a "Magical Key"... And then go to Level "z + a" at coordinates (b, c) where you have a locked "Treasure Chest".

The coordinates supersede what is normally populated on the Level Map. And you know this from the "Quest" Card which explains the storyline.

So yeah "Diablo I" or "Torchlight I" are good examples of how generate a RANDOM Level (which can be explored tile at a time) given a Deck of pre-constructed rooms and such... And then some locations are specific to the Quest players are currently embarked upon.

But yeah borrowing that concept, you could create levels with different Enemies, different Items, different Stories (or Quests), etc.

I think your ideas are valid and on-point! Cheers.

Sun, 02/12/2023 - 03:10

#3

FrankM

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Look into Diablo I

Seconding Quest’s advice, you can have a “deck” of potential quests, each of which claims certain landmarks in the dungeon. For example, Diablo I had a quest known as The Butcher that placed a dying man at the dungeon entrance (who did little more than spout some exposition before dying) and The Butcher’s Lair in level 2 which always seemed to be at the end of a long corridor.

There may be player-research into all of these quests.

More complex quests, or better yet a procedural quest-builder, can put thematically related elements in the same dungeon.

Sun, 02/12/2023 - 10:03

#4

larienna

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My original idea was that I

My original idea was that I could have a list of story objective positioned at level depth only.

Level 1: Get key A
Level 3: Use key A, meet NPC, get key B
level 5: Defeat boss, use key B, end game.

The maze would be randomly generated and those events would be placed in it. The advantage is that those story "main quest" events are related to each other, and they control how to win the game. The disadvantage is that every play through will have those same events, and players must select a story before generating the maze. I could run into complication that those events could not be placed in the maze due to a bad configuration.

Else, I can go only random from a pool of quest and objectives. But again, I could have different pool of objectives according to the story flavor I am trying to generate. So instead of forcing a sequence of events, I could generate a sequence of events from a pool of possibilities.

I am wondering if I could use event mechanics or something similar from cooperative board games: like Robinson Crusoe, Eldritch Horror, Arkham Horror. Those events could occurs between expeditions, or during an expedition and spawn some kind of quest in the maze that must be accomplished, else something bad is going to happen to the city above, or the dungeon will have more threat like a lurking monster in an area of the maze. It could have some potential, with or without a link to a story.

My goal has always been to create story machine, rather than scripted stories. So maybe a pool of events and quests which share a thematic flavor could actually generate story with minimal cohesion.

Sun, 02/12/2023 - 10:38

#5

X3M

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If you are worried

That the maze will keep players away from the story.
Then the maze creation it self doesn't work well?

How do you create a maze?

***

I think, the best way to create, is to have a main path.
Connecting start to end. And at intervals an interesting room.
Then branch of at key locations.

If you want a key location being in a branch. Then simply put it somewhere and create a secondairy main path first.

Then fill in the blanks.

Things to keep in mind is. In order to prevent loops. Always start branching from a main path. The path can be random, but has to end up where you want to go.

Then fill in the blanks as much as you like. Eventually, a branch would be just 1 corner. But still connected to a main path.

***

You can try this on paper first.

Draw a random path with a single line. I am talking here about where the player walks, not the walls. The walls come in last.

So the random line is drawn. Then a branch. And another branch. Etc. Until every possible room is touched.

Every line has a start (another road) and a goal. End location.
A bigger room would simply be "a flower" on the branch. Where you touch multiple rooms.

Eventually, when you have reached every room. You can start drawing the walls. Walls go there where there is no branch.

If you want a loop anyway, it can be created as well, by not placing walls between 2 branches. But since the method of creating has done in a certain way. You never have to be afraid of a closed loop.

Good luck.

Sun, 02/12/2023 - 15:08

#6

larienna

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I have no issue with the

I have no issue with the algorithm. This book/web site has many generation algorithm I can use:

https://weblog.jamisbuck.org/2011/2/7/maze-generation-algorithm-recap

Since it's a game, and not a puzzle, I cannot just ask players to reach a destination in the maze and win the game. There must be something to keep player engaged in the game.

One solution is story, but I am not very good at writing stories, so I don't think using complex narrative. So maybe: quests, events, locks, could create indirectly a kind of narrative if spawned in various ways.

It reminds me of dungeon quest, there is little story, you just enter a dungeon and flip tiles, but the outcome somewhat create stories that you can tell and laugh about.

Sun, 02/12/2023 - 20:37

#7

X3M

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I see you got it all figured out with the map

I wished to post something here. But it is blocked for some reason.

Mon, 02/13/2023 - 00:52

#8

questccg

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It's got to do with something that is being blocked.

X3M wrote:

I wished to post something here. But it is blocked for some reason.

It could be PUNCTUATION (!, @, $, %) or Parenthesis ((( ))) or stuff like that. Just EDIT your message using the BACK Button until you find what is NOT being accepted. It's part of Mod_Security and the HOSTING Company is "Training" the module to not block normal LANGUAGE and writing.

It was designed to STOP HACKING...

If you figure out the issue, please send me a PM or better post it on our DM session on Discord. I can contact the HOSTING Company to accept YOUR "broken" rules LIVE (I need to do it and they see the violations and figure out what it is and then "train" the module).

Sorry... It's been getting better ... But maybe still some issues with the PHP module (Mod_Security).

Sincerely.

Mon, 02/13/2023 - 06:08

#9

X3M

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In short

Make a list of story elements?

Like, a boss, an enemy, a treasure, a door, NPC, an item.

Then for each element, you can make another list of what it is exactly. Like an ogre, an elf, coins, a door that needs magical roots, purple dog and the magical roots.

Simply have the story machine randomize in this and make a list. The size can also be random. But you could link the number to the level.
Then reverse engineer and connect each part.

So, if at the end, there is a door. You could have an item. And this item could be dropped by a NPC or boss.

Mon, 02/13/2023 - 07:05

#10

larienna

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So basically, what you are

So basically, what you are saying is decomposing events in subpart or variables and making permutations of those variables? Roughly something like:

SOURCE (Chest, Boss, NPC, Puzzle, etc)
CONSEQUENCE (Get key, trigger event, unlock door, etc)

Another thing that came to my mind, if a huge maze is generated, thre could be many keys and locks. So an idea to make each "key" unique is to combine an item name with a "Color". ALlowing generating multiple similar key items like:

Gold key, Silver key, Bronze key, Copper key
Yellow skull, Red skull, Blue skull, Green skull

You see the idea.

Mon, 02/13/2023 - 11:33

#11

pelle

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larienna I think you need to

larienna I think you need to think even bigger than different colors of keys. Think key-lock in a wider sense. A weapon needed to defeat a boss-monster blocking a passage. A hidden lever needed to open a door. Magic shoes that allow you to walk across the lava blocking a passage.

There should be infinite combinations you can come up with.

And all of those stacks as well. First you need key A to get throuh door A to get key B that you need for door C so that you can find key D that will finally allow you to backtrack to door D and move on to get deeper into the maze (as in, things do not have to be linearly arranged, but you can have dead-ends in the maze locked behind doors that you need to get through before you can progress along the non-deadend path through the maze).

Mon, 02/13/2023 - 17:57

#12

X3M

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I am sure

He only gave a simple example in order to reconfirm.

And yes, something like that.
Now, the list I posted was blocked.

But yeah. You program that the game will make a permutation of an event.
The event can be a quest. But can also just...happen.

And if a couple of events are made. Maybe some can be crosslinked somehow.

Mon, 02/13/2023 - 18:45

#13

FrankM

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Rouge-like, in a sense

I think these will work better if they are procedurally generated from elements that seem thematically linked.

Assert a certain treasure item is in the dungeon, with some constraints on where it can be, theme, etc.

Place the treasure in a “hoard” on plausible regular items for that area, each of which might constrain the placement a bit.

Place a guardian for this hoard, which could be a puzzle (door and key, booby trap, riddle, etc.) or a creature with some requirements for its lair, which might further constrain the placement.

Place a herald/precursor for the guardian (key, hint, henchmen, lookout, etc. as appropriate) with constraints on its position relative to the guardian.

Does the herald/precursor merit its own hoard and/or guardian? Maybe the key drops as loot from a specific (but normal-seeming) baddie. Maybe the guardian spawns its own precursor (need the jeweled skull key to open the jeweled skull vault which holds the sapphire key that opens up the sapphire mirror door, and so on.)

Have some declining probability on spawning more lead material the longer the quest gets, but also allow the possibility that you need more than one precursor for a guardian (the incubus placement spawns several succubi placements at earlier points in the dungeon, and several of the succubi spawn gifts in even earlier hoards that might allow the PC to avoid combat with them).

Once you have all these things you want to place, let them contend for physical locations in the dungeon. For my earlier example, The Butcher’s lair seems to be a single room, but it’s really that room and a long straight section of tunnel in front of it.

Can even be used to create longer-term quests (a big guardian lair IS a dungeon) and even background elements for the PCs story (such as a nemesis or mentor), but you should probably start small.

Mon, 02/13/2023 - 20:21

#14

questccg

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Hello @X3M

Can you POST this "blocked" list on Discord??? I will take a look and see if they can train Mod_Security when I debug the post with the HOSTING company...

This would mean less risk of "False Alarms" and the module locking you out of being able to post a comment.

I take this serious as this is NOT my moderation... It's false paranoia!

Tue, 02/14/2023 - 05:40

#15

larienna

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Quote: Think key-lock in a

Quote:

Think key-lock in a wider sense.

Of course, but if I ever need multiple real keys, I could put different colors.

Quote:

And all of those stacks as well.

I think here I could use a tree structure where one of the leaf is the end game. Then spread those key points into the maze.

Is there another pattern than: KEY REQUIREMENT-> Access LOCKED AREA

I am thinking about legends of Zelda as an example, you have real keys and special items that can act as a key (raft, Ladder). Even a puzzle, could be considered a KEY to access and AREA. Monster difficulty just required better character to access the area. But it's not something unique to accomplish.

When playing games like Skyrim, I don't like when the game tells me what to do, I want to be able to explore on my own. This is why I don't follow most of the quests. Having a low amount of them, or using them as a tutorial can be acceptable. I think I would prefer having something like objectives and letting players figure out how to deal with it.

Tue, 02/14/2023 - 05:59

#16

X3M

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You could even have a hidden

You could even have a hidden path open up.
Not nessesarily for the story.
Just a part of the maze that suddenly can be accessed and make the game a bit easier.
Where certain items are doubled up.
Thus, the player could reach the goal with several possibilities.

Tue, 02/14/2023 - 16:59

#17

larienna

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Unlocking shortcut. That

Unlocking shortcut. That could also be a REWARD, for the KEY-REWARD model.

There would also be secret areas (accessible from secret doors). Or there could just be places where you just get a REWARD. Or from another point of view, the KEY is at the same place as the REWARD (ex: A locked chest)

Tue, 02/14/2023 - 18:52

#18

questccg

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Another alternative

larienna wrote:

Quote:

Think key-lock in a wider sense.

Of course, but if I ever need multiple real keys, I could put different colors.

What if you SOMEHOW had "3" or "4" PILES. Each pile is a COMPONENT to a Quest. Like KEYS, LOCKABLES, GUARDIANS and TREASURE.

The for each COMPONENT you roll 1D6 and that's the amount of cards you MOVE to the BOTTOM of each PILE (Randomization). You would only require 1D6 but if you want to go fancy you can have a COLOR per die and go 4D6s. You can even have icons or logos depicting each die (as a BONUS).

The GOAL is to get the KEY, UNLOCK the "Lockable", BATTLE the "Guardian" and COLLECT the "Treasure"...

I know a LOT of Games have Auction or Draw Piles... Maybe something like that WITHOUT any need for "Stories", "Quests" and other prose-related content!

Just a thought! Cheers.

Note #1: Just some other "ideas" ... Your COMPONENTS can come in different COLORS too... Like RED = Fire and have a Flaming Key, the Warm Cove, Red Dragon and Ruby Pendant.

That can be a PRE-DESIGNED set of components. Of course everything is RNG ... But there is fundamentally some kind of logic per "Quest" and then the randomizer does its poo-poo-ing and the "Quest" is more RANDOM!

I added this is because MAYBE(!) you could sell packs of more Quests... Just a thought. I'm always focused on EXPANDABILITY of a game because it encourages more REPLAYABILITY each time a new addition gets added to the game a series of games will probably ensue there or afterwards.

Regards.

Tue, 02/14/2023 - 20:31

#19

questccg

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I bookmarked this a LONG time ago...

Roll20.net Endless Terrain Hexes

It's terrain for Roll20 Dungeon & Dragons. They are Hexes with some extra flora that connects two or more tiles together. Some are more "standard" which match the actual Hexes and may be more compatible with outdoors terrain. But then again I'm not saying you need to use these... Just give you ideas about the kinds of LEVELs you can make.

I for one would NOT use Cards or Tiles. Why? Too many games doing this in the Maze/Dungeon/Keep space. But Hexes for a Diablo style indoor Maze could be interesting... Walls and corners with Hexes could be more of a challenge ... But you may be able to work something else. I can think up of underground Mazes and such like "Rogue" (the PC Game):

Rogue PC Procedural Video Game

You may be interested in that in that it's PROCEDURALLY created too. Some early inspiration ... I never made it to Level 25 for the Crystal/Gemstone, I'd always die of food or stavation by Level 21 or so.

Anyhow I think I've given you some ideas to work with. If you need further help ... Feel free to continue to post. I'll try to pitch-in if anything comes to mind.

Cheers!

Tue, 02/14/2023 - 20:46

#20

questccg

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And if you were wondering

You can DOWNLOAD a copy of "Dos Box" and download the Rogue Abandonware (80s game) and TRY it yourself. It's pretty cool TBH. But beating the game is a bit HARD TBH. However if it's just something you want to TRY... Easy as pie.

Dos Box downloads (several versions)

And ROGUE is a simple program and can be found here:

Rogue PC Procedural Video Game - DOWNLOAD

It's pretty easy to setup and play this with little problems. If you have another DOS Emulator ... Use that ... The Rogue game is very SMALL because it's a TEXT-BASED DOS game (from 1983 I believe)...

Best.

Tue, 02/14/2023 - 21:11

#21

questccg

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About the MAZE "concept"

You can make it more like "SPACE" in the MAZE. Again I haven't seen this done before... But if you can use HEXES and FLOWERS and INVADER MATS like this:

The Game Crafter - Invader Mats

The Game Crafter - Flower Mats

And then use single Hexes to fill in gaps... If you make it more MAGICAL in terms of the maze (and not like every dungeon game out-there) I think it could be more ORIGINAL.

Again just some ideas for you... I know you've probably seen BOTH products from The Game Crafter before... But in case you did not, these are other components you can draw inspiration from.

Regards.

Wed, 02/15/2023 - 07:41

#22

pelle

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I mentioned Brogue on bgg in

I mentioned Brogue on bgg in an earlier reply to this question some days ago. Brogue is a more modern Rogue (that runs on modern platforms without dosbox... not that I mind dosbox) and also has full source code available and some excellent documents and at least one video presentation describing how the dungeons are generated. It is also known to have unusually good generated dungeons compared to other games.

Hexes for dungeons is an interesting idea, but it does make it a bit more difficult to create good locks/keys as hex-grids are not as easily subdivided. It can probably be done but I tried to modify my boardgame wall-placement algorithm for making dungeons to instead create hex-terrain and I could not figure out a great way to do that. (It does remind me of some old ~1980 fantasy wargame that had a hexmap for a large dungeon and it looked like fun. Images are on bgg somewhere but I can't remember the name right now.)

But hex terrain reminds me of the online tool Hex Describe (that can be downloaded to run locally as well, which I managed to do once but it was a bit of work to get all the dependencies set up; it might be useful to study the source code anyway): https://campaignwiki.org/hex-describe
Some links near the top of that page can be clicked to get instant hex maps generated. It is also possible to do a lot of customization (even without downloading anything). What Hex Describe does very well is that there is some stuff holding the maps together. Not quite key-lock stuff, but at least finding something randomly generated in one place that refers to something randomly generated elsewhere. And it also generates random dungeons in some hexes (complete with small dungeon maps and encounters listed for each room). So there can be someone you encounter in a hex in that tells you about some treasure guarded by a monster in a dungeon in a far location of the map. Each map also comes with some randomly generated background story and there will be events tying in to that here and there. Of course this is a tool for playing tabletop RPGs so not enough detail for a fully digital game.

Thu, 02/16/2023 - 00:22

#23

larienna

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Yes, Pelle suggested Brogue,

Yes, Pelle suggested Brogue, and I watched the video. I am going to try the game when I have some time. It's for my personal culture, and learn more about the rogue genre.

I tried to install the linux version from binaries and the game crashes when starting a new game. I guess I'll have no choice to build it from the source code.

Hexes in man made construction is always bad, because humans build stuff squarish. Hexes is good for exterior terrain.

As for the KEY-REWARD system, if everything can fit that model, then it will be easier to program. Standardization makes it easier to code and expand (add new keys types and rewards types)

Thu, 02/16/2023 - 13:49

#24

pelle

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Luckily building from sources

Luckily building from sources is very easy. I never did it any other way. You may want to have sdl2 installed and ncurses and probably just run make. There is a BUILD.md with instructions.

You can put rectangular things in hexes, especially if you limit them to mostly one or two hexes in size (like most buildings in Ambush!). You can do longer as well like in ASL there are rowhouses on some maps that stretch out over many hexes, but in a line that follows the grid (and only one hex wide). It only becomes a problem when you try to do larger rectangular areas, so it all depends on the scale of the dungeon I guess. (And besides who said humans built the dungeon? :) )

That old game I was thinking about just ignores that and uses hex-shaped rooms. Found it on bgg: https://boardgamegeek.com/image/243138/lords-underearth
I think it looks like fun. It's a wargame, not an adventure game, which is unusual for dungeons. Each side has a quite large number of units to use. I do not know the details, but I like the idea of playing a wargame in a dungeon. Have to try that sometime (maybe design my own game about it?).

Thu, 02/16/2023 - 13:59

#25

FrankM

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Ancient example & modern question

I'm old enough to remember the text-based Hack from the monochrome monitor era, but it sounds like you don't want to be THAT random with your dungeons. I think that a Diablo-like random feature generator will give you the most replayability.

Do the maze generators you have available mark the main through-path for you? You'll want to make sure that your character doesn't fight long and hard to get a key that opens a door to a dead-end. On the other hand, you might want to use a dead-end as a creature's lair.

Given the choice, I think you should grab a maze generator that makes "rational" layouts like central corridors, no blind dead-ends, and puts rooms in for you. That way, you don't need to modify the maze to fit in the big room called for by a particular lair. It also prevents your player from breaking immersion with the thought "Who would have ever built this thing?"

Thu, 02/16/2023 - 14:10

#26

questccg

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F- me!!! Lords Underneath looks like Diablo!

Wow @pelle that hex-based dungeon looks AMAZING! Exactly what I was picturing in my mind, but never thought that anyone has done something similar... That looks super freaky!!! It gives it sort of an "Enchanted Maze" like where the rooms are not man-made but super magical and by beings that were mystical.

Lords Underneath @larienna... That's what I was sort of picturing. Seeing it in reality means it's been done. But how often??? Maybe one game.

Kudos @pelle for sharing that game.

Thu, 02/16/2023 - 14:11

#27

FrankM

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Dungeonkeeper

pelle wrote:

It's a wargame, not an adventure game, which is unusual for dungeons. Each side has a quite large number of units to use. I do not know the details, but I like the idea of playing a wargame in a dungeon. Have to try that sometime (maybe design my own game about it?).

That looks like it might be Dungeonkeeper as a board game. Though Dungeonkeeper is a boatload of fun, nothing is randomly generated. Plenty of elements to "borrow" into larienna's project, though.

From Lords of Underearth itself, maybe take the idea of coordinated units. Spawn a leader somewhere deep enough and spawn a whole "headquarters" around it, then spawn captains in shallower locations, each of which spawns some troops and lookouts. That can represent the classic "the orcs that raid our villages have established their base in the old silver mine" kind of dungeon.

Thu, 02/16/2023 - 15:04

#28

questccg

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One small comment

Is this for a Video Game or a TableTop Game??? I ask this now because those HEX Tiles (for Terrain) could be amazing to create a Video Game. Because you can use overlaying of tiles and use the tiles with "extended" features (like grass going over the edge of the tile in some rooms).

Also be it Video or TableTop, the Invader and Flower samples from The Game Crafter (TGC) can be really useful in generating larger rooms or "Room Areas". You could use BOTH to create ROOMS and connect the hexes together with Hex Tiles.

Again I'm not sure what you want to make with a Maze and/or Dungeon.

But you should have a bunch of converging ideas ATM!

@FrankM is also right about Dungeon Keeper, the levels are PRE-DESIGNED and supposed to play out as intended. Rogue also has something SIMILAR on some levels... Like one level is the Catacombs and it's a bunch of paths that lead no where but from which you can find items and equipment. But it's a bit dangerous because it's impossible to flee from an enemy that is too powerful.

So this concept of PRE-GENERATED ROOMS with interconnecting Maze-Like paths is kinda what Rogue does already on CERTAIN LEVELS. Not all.

In any event kudos to you all for making such an interesting thread! It's been cool reading all the neat suggestions and such. All very original content.

Keep it up... I'm sure @larienna could use some more ideas to work with or at the very least research a bit.

Fri, 02/17/2023 - 14:59

#29

larienna

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Quote: Luckily building from

Quote:

Luckily building from sources is very easy.

I build it. It's made in plain C (^_^).

I think I ran the ncurse version, I think there should be an SDL graphic mode version because I saw some monsters assets. I'll probably need to try command line options.

I like that the project is maintained by a "Benevolent dictator". I like the concept, and would be willing to become a "Benevolent dictator" too, not sure what are the implications.

Quote:

that hex-based dungeon looks AMAZING! Exactly what I was picturing in my mind,

I know you guys love hexes, I love them too, but not for dungeons. And the game I want to use require turn based 1st person maze projection, so squares layout is essential.

Quote:

That looks like it might be Dungeonkeeper as a board game.

I barely played the first game. I like the concept of that game, I could take a look at it as a source of inspiration.

Quote:

Given the choice, I think you should grab a maze generator that makes "rational" layouts like central corridors

I am not sure I want to go 100% that way. I can live with a portion of irrational layout. The game which is based on (Wizardry) had almost only irrational layout. There might be a few consideration here and there, but the entire maze will not be logical. At least not the generated one.

Quote:

Do the maze generators you have available mark the main through-path for you? You'll want to make sure that your character doesn't fight long and hard to get a key that opens a door to a dead-end.

So far what I have in mind is to have 2 layer of maze. Think like Dungeon Quest tiles, Legend of zelda rooms, or Carcassone roads tiles where each tile side has entry points. Those connections determine the navigation between the tiles, therefore the logic of the maze resolution. The quest and key planning will be made with this high level maze/graph. Also that graph is 3D, as it would include dungeon depth.

Then each tile is a unique 2D generated maze in itself that the user must navigate in. For now, I would assume that all tile entry point can be accessed by any other entry point. But like Dungeon quest and legend of Zelda, there could be tiles where not all connections are possible. For example diagonal split tiles. If I want to go this route, I'll have to change how the high level maze organized to make sure navigation is possible.

Finally, all the objectives of the game could be drawn as a tree of objectives and requirements. Only 1 leaf is the end of the game, other leaf are just extra rewards, side quest or keys to the main path. Still it is possible to make sure that the deepest leaf is the end game, to make sure it's worth the effort.

Fri, 02/17/2023 - 20:45

#30

questccg

Online

Joined: 04/16/2011

Ah okay ... now I see it...

So this is for your Wizardry re-make Video Game! I thought it was a TOP-DOWN tile placement Board Game... Boy was I off by miles... Hehehe. No worries.

I think a lot of the suggestions were because we thought it was for a Board Game and not a video game. Yeah Hexes in a Video Game, not good. But if it was for a modular and dynamic Board Game ... Hexes could be perfect. Again... under the wrong assumptions.

One tip for a Video Game: using some kind of RANDOMIZER that is seeded with ONE VALUE (like 1,234,567) will produce the SAME Dungeon as many times as that seed is used. Different SEED, different MAZE/LEVEL. But SAME SEED, same maze/level.

This gives the player the option to return to a PREVIOUS level if he/she missed something of importance on an earlier level.

I don't know if this will be possible for you to do. I know in C/C++ it was on Linux and PC. Subsequent calls to a seeded random function yielded the EXACT SAME results for subsequent random calls.

If you CAN'T do this... That's fine. But it would make all your effort much simpler if you could PREDICT the exact SEQUENCE of random calls/numbers given different seeds per level (one level, one seed).

So yeah for Wizardry Levels, I would NOT use HEXES. Like I said, I thought you were working on some kind of Board/Card Game Maze/Dungeon Game and figured HEXES would be more original. But yeah for your particular project... Squares are the best way to go.

Note #1: And when I SAID "HEXES would be good for a Video Game..." I was thinking something TOP-DOWN Board for TableTopia or Tabletop Simulator. Not an FPS type of game...

RPG: How to handle key story elements with randomly generated levels?

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