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2018 World Original Design Contest of Board Game

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Wed, 05/09/2018 - 22:32
Jelly
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WODC (World Original Design Contest of Board Game) is a worldwide original board game design contest sponsored by Yoka Games, a publisher and distributor of board games from China. All participants will design their board games around the theme “China”. Through 3 stages, there will be 9 prizes for designers to compete and the champion will be awarded with $3,000! Moreover, not only for the winning designs, every design has a chance to be assisted in publication and promotion support.

And we have invited worldwide famous board game related personnel as our judges, so you can communicate and even start a dialogue with them!

Com'on and show your creativity!
Submission Email: tougao@dobest.com
For business: nixiaopu@dobest.com
Just click http://wodc.yokagames.com/en/index.html please for more information!

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Tue, 05/15/2018 - 13:49
#1
lewpuls
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Skepticism

I haven't found anything in the contest materials stating what rights you give up when you enter this contest. Has anyone else? Without certainty of retaining all your rights, it should be avoided.

The judges are listed as Reiner Knizia and three East Asians (one the designer of Love Letter) whose names I do not recognize.

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Tue, 05/15/2018 - 22:05
#2
Jelly
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lewpuls wrote:I haven't found

lewpuls wrote:
I haven't found anything in the contest materials stating what rights you give up when you enter this contest. Has anyone else? Without certainty of retaining all your rights, it should be avoided.

The judges are listed as Reiner Knizia and three East Asians (one the designer of Love Letter) whose names I do not recognize.

Thanks for your attention. There is a WODC Agreement(white text on yellow background) to download, which states that we have the preferential right of commercial cooperation for designs. During the whole process, designers still hold the copyright of game design, including the rules and game playing details.

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Wed, 05/16/2018 - 16:06
#3
lewpuls
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No timeframe is provided for

No timeframe is provided for the following. You may intend that it applies only during the duration of the contest, but that is not said:

"Hangzhou Yoka has the preferential right of commercial cooperation for all designs. All designs will not be allowed to participate in other contests, to publish in public, or to enter into commercial channels in any form unless Hangzhou Yoka waives the preferential right above by written notice. After the contest, Hangzhou Yoka and the winning entrants shall sign cooperation agreements accordingly."

Further, when the duration of the contest is not defined, even that application would not be satisfactory.

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Wed, 05/16/2018 - 22:01
#4
Jelly
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lewpuls wrote:No timeframe is

lewpuls wrote:
No timeframe is provided for the following. You may intend that it applies only during the duration of the contest, but that is not said:

"Hangzhou Yoka has the preferential right of commercial cooperation for all designs. All designs will not be allowed to participate in other contests, to publish in public, or to enter into commercial channels in any form unless Hangzhou Yoka waives the preferential right above by written notice. After the contest, Hangzhou Yoka and the winning entrants shall sign cooperation agreements accordingly."

Further, when the duration of the contest is not defined, even that application would not be satisfactory.

Sorry there is a mistake. Designers always have copyright of their game designs, including the rules and game play details. And if we decide to publish your design, we will conclude an agreement with you about game publishing process, copyright and payment.

Generally, if you fail to enter the semi-final stage, you can do whatever you like to your design since we will give every designer a written notice after each stage.

Further, the contest schedule has listed on the website and the agreement. The contest will end on Dec 15th.

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Thu, 05/17/2018 - 12:41
#5
Jay103
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Jelly wrote:Sorry there is a

Jelly wrote:

Sorry there is a mistake. Designers always have copyright of their game designs, including the rules and game play details. And if we decide to publish your design, we will conclude an agreement with you about game publishing process, copyright and payment.

Generally, if you fail to enter the semi-final stage, you can do whatever you like to your design since we will give every designer a written notice after each stage.


That's not in the contract language, though.

All designers retain the copyrights, but lose the right to publish the game with anyone other than you, forever. So, yay copyright.

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Thu, 05/17/2018 - 23:57
#6
Jelly
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Jay103 wrote:Jelly

Jay103 wrote:
Jelly wrote:

Sorry there is a mistake. Designers always have copyright of their game designs, including the rules and game play details. And if we decide to publish your design, we will conclude an agreement with you about game publishing process, copyright and payment.

Generally, if you fail to enter the semi-final stage, you can do whatever you like to your design since we will give every designer a written notice after each stage.


That's not in the contract language, though.

All designers retain the copyrights, but lose the right to publish the game with anyone other than you, forever. So, yay copyright.

We would give every designer a written notice to state whether we adopt his/her design or not. If we don't adopt, the designer can do whatever they like to their designs, including publishing with others.

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Fri, 05/18/2018 - 08:41
#7
Jay103
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Jelly wrote:We would give

Jelly wrote:
We would give every designer a written notice to state whether we adopt his/her design or not. If we don't adopt, the designer can do whatever they like to their designs, including publishing with others.

Sure.. that's just not in the actual rules. The rules say you have sole rights forever unless you give them up. It would be great if you gave them up, and I see that you say here that you intend to give them up, but the contract/rules don't say that you need to. They say you have the rights forever.

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Fri, 05/18/2018 - 09:45
#8
polyobsessive
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Rights

And to go a little further, there should really be an automatic reversion to the designer. Nobody should be required to hand control of their work over to someone else and have to trust that they will give it back.

I suspect those sort of terms wouldn't actually hold up in court, but it could be very expensive to find out. I'm not going near this one.

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Fri, 05/18/2018 - 10:08
#9
Jay103
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polyobsessive wrote:I suspect

polyobsessive wrote:
I suspect those sort of terms wouldn't actually hold up in court.

In what country? :/

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Fri, 05/18/2018 - 10:28
#10
polyobsessive
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?!

Jay103 wrote:
polyobsessive wrote:
I suspect those sort of terms wouldn't actually hold up in court.

In what country? :/

:D Fair point, and this is not clear. Another reason to steer clear for me.

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Fri, 05/18/2018 - 23:10
#11
BubbleChucks
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In terms of IP protection I

In terms of IP protection I might be more worried about the association with Yoka Games.

https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/54775/links-davincis-bang-lawsuit-sho...

Granted, Yoka Games won the case and on that legal basis it would be unfair to level any form of direct criticism at them.

However, people are still free to form their own opinions about the nature and outcome of that particular case.

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Mon, 05/21/2018 - 10:13
#12
lewpuls
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That seals it

BubbleChucks wrote:
In terms of IP protection I might be more worried about the association with Yoka Games.

https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/54775/links-davincis-bang-lawsuit-sho...

Granted, Yoka Games won the case and on that legal basis it would be unfair to level any form of direct criticism at them.

However, people are still free to form their own opinions about the nature and outcome of that particular case.


Thanks, BubbleChucks. That seals it for me. If Yoka was involved in what was, morally, a rip-off of Bang!, even if it turned out to be legal, then why would a designer submit to them with the knowledge that this could easily lead to another rip-off of a design without benefit to the designer? The Bang! designers didn't make a cent from that rip-off.

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Mon, 05/21/2018 - 11:06
#13
lewpuls
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I caution everyone to avoid

I caution everyone to avoid thinking "no one would do that" or "that wouldn't hold up in court". You need to get it straight up front.

I've heard (reliably) of a well-known publisher wanting an enormous sum (well into 6 figures) to return rights to a game to the designer. Of a designer not getting a cent because the game was never "published", though a digital form was used online (for free), and others.

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Mon, 05/21/2018 - 13:00
#14
McTeddy
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lewpuls wrote:I caution

lewpuls wrote:
I caution everyone to avoid thinking "no one would do that" or "that wouldn't hold up in court". You need to get it straight up front.

I've heard (reliably) of a well-known publisher wanting an enormous sum (well into 6 figures) to return rights to a game to the designer. Of a designer not getting a cent because the game was never "published", though a digital form was used online (for free), and others.

^ This ^

I had a publisher screw me. I'm not going to go into details but it ended with them taking the rights to my work based on a technicality. (I still got paid so it wasn't a theft, just shady)

Technicalities and Loop Holes are where you will get screwed.

If there is even a question get it updated in the contract. If a publisher is honest about their intentions, they'll fix the wording.

By now, I've worked with 4 publishers and 3 have been fantastic. I'd even had mostly good experience with the fourth until said events.

But the exact wording in the contact is the ONLY protection I had and the only way that I was able to take the rights back in the future.

Take it seriously.

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Sun, 05/27/2018 - 10:23
#15
lewpuls
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If it isn't in writing, IN

If it isn't in writing, IN THE CONTRACT, it doesn't count. And if there's anything in the contract you don't understand, it MUST be changed before you sign. Don't rely on someone's explanation - it must be in the contract.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can give elementary advice about life, the universe, and everything!

(Added days later)
Unfortunately, I don't know of anything published that advises designers about how contracts need to be made. I have some advice I give to friends privately, but it's not as detailed as it might be. Someday perhaps I'll make something more formal.

I'm a little surprised that there's (as yet) no comment of any kind from "Jelly". I wonder if Knizia is aware of this association with the Bang! ripoff (if in fact he's aware he's been made a judge).

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Wed, 05/30/2018 - 22:46
#16
Lovac
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Well i saw on their very

Well i saw on their very limited site they support IP protection etc, lobbying in china for that? Sure :D. Also noticed the controversial info on BGG so no thanks, prefer spending my game design time working on something else :).

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Sun, 06/03/2018 - 22:23
#17
Jelly
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lewpuls wrote:If it isn't in

lewpuls wrote:
If it isn't in writing, IN THE CONTRACT, it doesn't count. And if there's anything in the contract you don't understand, it MUST be changed before you sign. Don't rely on someone's explanation - it must be in the contract.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can give elementary advice about life, the universe, and everything!

(Added days later)
Unfortunately, I don't know of anything published that advises designers about how contracts need to be made. I have some advice I give to friends privately, but it's not as detailed as it might be. Someday perhaps I'll make something more formal.

I'm a little surprised that there's (as yet) no comment of any kind from "Jelly". I wonder if Knizia is aware of this association with the Bang! ripoff (if in fact he's aware he's been made a judge).

Apologies for delay in replying. I took two weeks off and just came back.

In the contract phase, anything that is not clear or you don't understand could be discussed and the results would be written in the CONTRACT.

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Mon, 06/04/2018 - 14:46
#18
lewpuls
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If it isn't in writing . . .

But contest entrants must rely solely on what the *current* wording is, not on what might be changed or added.

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Wed, 06/06/2018 - 09:05
#19
Jay103
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Contests

https://clientsfromhell.net/post/174598162693/by-entering-all-entrants-l...

For some reason, reminded me of this thread

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Mon, 07/02/2018 - 10:57
#20
twoeyedcyclops
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Knizia not involved

Reiner Knizia tweeted earlier today "I will not act as a judge in the Yoka sponsored World Original Design Contest, nor can I recommend anyone to participate in this contest."

He also went on to say in a separate tweet, "Game designers of the world, consider carefully with whom you share your unpublished designs. Beware of the black sheep of the games industry!" This may or may not be related to the first tweet, but it sure sounds like it is.

This "contest" has seemed suspicious from the beginning.

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