I dare you to read my Rules!!

Hi evansmind.

I don't mind a roll and move game at all - especially at Christmas! :)
I'll play Ludo, snakes and ladders, Snail Trail (by Ravensburger...a sweet mix of the two published in the 1980s)

One thing those games have in common is simplicity. For me, the charm of a roll and move game is that it's easy, simple, and takes no brain work. That leaves room for fun trash talking, engaging with the joys of luck, and having very clear and simple hopes and fears about what might happen next.

I think you know what I'm about to say now? :)

Mate, I think the rules are too complex for what you want to achieve. Would the experience be less fun if the game contained much less....much less...I don't know....just much LESS!

I might be wrong about that. It's hard to tell without playtesting it. If you've played it and enjoyed it then that's proof enough that it works.

But what I AM sure about is that the graphic design of the board should be toned down a bit. A little bit of serenity to go with the Christmas vibe perhaps. Getting rid of the blizzard effect would help make it less fussy. Maybe just the odd snowflake instead? My overall impression is that it reminds me of an over-decorated Christmas tree. You've sort of filled every space with something. I'm not a graphic designer but I was given some lessons at art college - I remember something about the value of empty spaces. I think you need some.

Well, I hope that helped a bit?

In your original post, I updated your links to be more "user-friendly". I hope you don't mind. They now use the < anchor > tag and will automatically open up a NEW "tab" in your browser simply by clicking on the link.

As far as your game is concerned... I like the snow on the board but NOT the snow in the rulebook... The board looks crowded — but that is in essence the reality of the Christmas Holiday Season. So the board, in my opinion, is fine. But your rulebook has too much snow and it is too chaotic!

I would rework the rulebook ... because that's just plain BACKGROUND "aesthetics". That can be reworked with not too much effort. And I'm sure you can come up with something like white "snowflakes" of different sizes and only a couple (like maybe 5 or 6). That may work.

Regarding the rules themselves, I didn't read... I was scarred off by the snowy background ... Arghh ... I was like "run away before the blizzard gets you!" :P

It's both a "Roll & Move" game and also an -opoly game too. I know it's very different from Monopoly... But what you should figure out... To me, is that I get the impression that you are a "one-trick-poney"! You need to either A> shelve this design and move on to something new B> get this game published or Kickstarted.

The problem I see is that this is a very SEASONAL game. Which is BAD. People will only want to play it around Christmas time (mostly). That's why I'm not dismissing that you have designed a very thorough seasonal game... But for your next game, try something with more general appeal. Whatever the theme is, go with something that people will want to play all year round.

That's why I see it performing BAD on Kickstarter ... BUT you may want to do something Fancy and KS it in December ... and do like the 25 days of Christmas (literally) for the KS campaign. December 25 as being the Final Day of your KS...

The ultimate Christmas Present would be the KS reaching it's goal! And then wait for like 8 months and ship to backers in September to November and get another Holiday BUZZ the subsequent year ... again people playing the game in December...

Could work... maybe.

I'll maybe read over the rules on Sunday... If I'm having a quiet day. I don't really enjoy reading rulebooks. But I might give it a read. I think from your earlier threads ... it has something to do with collecting Christmas Presents in preparation for Christmas... (I think).

Anyway if this game is done... (Almost ... I think the rulebook just in terms of the background needs a bit of *fixing*) ... But the game is pretty much solid and you've got a decision to make: KS it or shelve it.

Sincerely.

Your word count might be less than the Monopoly rules perhaps (?), but there are a lot of different and disconnected things going on. As someone who was new to your game and was reading the rules to understand them from scratch - it took me much longer than the 6 minutes it took you, the author. For one thing, one reading wasn't enough for me. I didn't read it 4 times for fun. I had to read it 4 times to try to get a sense of what the game was.

Why?

You've got loads of subheadings, mini-games, quite unusual concepts - like the family journal - and there's just so much going on. There are a lot of rules that ask people to do things that, as far as I was able to tell, have no effect on the outcome of the game. The game objective isn't clear from the beginning. The introduction mentioned collecting gifts and cash as the objecting. The 'Ending Game' section gives different win conditions. If nothing else, you definitely need to correct that.

Moreover, in the Monopoly rules, there's a clear thread that unites the ideas. Owning and exploiting properties. Yours doesn't have that, which may not be a bad thing, but bear in mind it effects how easily absorbed the rules are. We're not just buying gifts, we're landing on business and paying rent, pretending to answer the phone, playing games of Rock-Paper-Scissors, etc.

That's the only point I want to make really. I think the rules need to be if not simplified/ cut-down, then somehow tidied up - but I don't know how you'd do that.

As far as liking the game play goes. I haven't played it and that would be a subjective thing anyway. There are lots of popular and successful (and probably very good) games that I personally don't care for.

But why are you surprised that I suggested the game wasn't 'tranquil'? :)
A game certainly doesn't have to be 'tranquil', and I'd be very surprised if that's the experience you were going for when you created a game called 'Holiday Fever'! If you WERE going for tranquility, then:

simpler rules (fewer desperate elements)
fewer Take That cards
a much, much calmer looking board (Although it looks Christmasy, it also reminds me of those dodgy porn/ gambling website that you get directed to when your computer has a virus. All it needs are flashing lights and animated gifs)

...but, you're not trying to capture tranquility. You're trying to capture the mad rush before Christmas. So it doesn't matter (apart from the board, IMHO).

RE the board: Before you try to sell this game, consider letting a graphic designer loose on the board. You will be amazed at the difference. And I think even just a couple of hours work would be enough to make an appreciable improvement. Small things like making the text in the boxes smaller would reduce the sense of over-crowding, for example...Graphic Designers are also magicians with colour and will make the whole thing come together better than you or I could.

It may well be that having a graphic designer work on the board AND the rules might help improve reader reception, so kill two birds with one stone.

Seems like... complicated Monopoly. There's a lot going on there. The board is making my eyes bleed ;)

Some of these rule segments seem tacked on, like the whole "business" thing, and giving speeches? OMG why am I giving speeches? What happens if I refuse? Nothing. I'm definitely refusing. What does that add to the game? How do the business add to the game's theme (of gift buying)?

To understand what I did for the URL Links, just Edit the OP. You'll also notice that for markup to work, I used "Markdown" as the "Input format".

When you Edit the OP, you'll see it's standard HTML code with normal < anchors >.

Note: Not all HTML will work, but you can do tables, div, hr.

This works on ANY comment, provided you change the "Input format". If you forget to do this the HTML will appear as plain text in the message.

You are very welcome indeed and I'm glad my comments have been of some help.

I can't really offer much comment on the family journal idea and the concept of the game as a vehicle for forging family traditions. It's very unusual. It strikes me that family traditions develop organically in their own way. But...maybe you've hit on something totally unique and original. I don't know.

I've been trying to think of Christmas themed ideas that I'd find festive and fun. For me it probably wouldn't be a game that focuses (ostensibly at least) on frantic Christmas shopping. :)

Maybe something involving sleighs across a snowy scene - perhaps delivering presents (because Santa has decided to let the elves compete) [Yeah, even though it's a Christmas game, I'd still want competition. I don't really understand cooperative games. hehe] Your naughty-or-nice (coal for the bad) could come into that...

Maybe taking the role of wise men navigating towards the nativity. I'd be delighted to see a game brave enough to reference the bible - although I can see that it might irritate some people these days....well...humbug to them! haha

Speaking of humbugs - maybe a Christmas Carol (Scrouge) theme. Or some generic Victorian curmudgeon(s) you have to win over by Christmas Day.

Decorating the Christmas tree feels like it could be the basis of a nice abstract game. There's a game out about designing stained glass windows for example. I think you get points for fulfilling certain criteria.

There's no telling what games will become imbued with a Christmasy quality though. I recently found my old cardboard Chinese Checkers game that I got for Christmas more than 30 years ago when I was about 8 or 9. That brought on intense nostalgia. It's remembering the experience of playing games like that with my family when I was a child that I think I understand what you're trying to achieve and that's why I called your game 'well intentioned'. I can tell how much love (for family and the holiday) you've put into your game.

If you get your manufacturing and fulfillment paid via a Kickstarter, what you can do with your money is:

A> Re-coup money for all the Graphic Design that has been done.

B> Pay for advertising on Facebook, Board Game Geek, Father Geek (They'll love your game since they are interested in games good for the whole family), KickTraq and get a whole bunch of backers to buy into your KS.

C> Use TGC "Sanity Check" to help refine your rulebook and your TGC web presence (for sales on "The Game Crafter"). Even if you don't want to SELL on TGC... Using the "Sanity Check" can help iron out your rulebook. It's only like $30 USD a shot and may take like 2 to 3 tries to get it above 75%. More if you want a 90% score.

D> Do blind playtesting via a service like Coalition Game Studios to get feedback about your game than is independent and 3rd party which means neutral reviewers (http://www.coalitiongames.com/index.html). They charge but at the same time, that puts your money to good use!

E> Some reviewers that do Video Previews of games like Undead Viking and Board To Death TV charge a fee to produce a video for your game. Consider these because you will need reviews for your KS (If you want it to do well). Consider hitting up other reviewers too (Here's a list: http://www.jamesmathe.com/o-reviewer-reviewer-wherefore-art-thou/). Consider sending copies of your game out to some of them for some good reviews... Of course that means spending monies on making more prototypes to get shipped... Once you're setup on TGC all you need to do is "Add to Cart" and direct ship it to the reviewer in question... Once they have agreed to playtest your game!

There are all kinds of ways of spending GOOD monies in all kinds of beneficial ways to help both the promotion and sales of your game.

(Just don't spend on making the MVP and having no one to sell to...)

Cheers!

That's a bit why I HIGHLY suggest NOT investing his own money in making the game. Going with TGC is a wise move ... because you'll see the reaction to this game from buyers. Also a joint-KS is a great way to sell some volume if by chance you decide to go that route.

This is one of those things. Like my earlier attempt to sell individual player boxes for a four (4) player game (1 to 4 now). I thought it might work ... but realizing how game stores work and how people buy games... It was all wrong.

I think if you set your goals low and give it a try... You'll see how the market reacts. IDK — it's hard to say.

I'm on the bubble. Like I've already stated it's very "niche".

Yeah, I agree with QuestCCG.. this has "The Game Crafter" written all over it. It's a set of components they should pretty much have in stock (game board, cards, die, box).

For the prototype, did you send a return label or anything? I wrote off my prototypes as soon as they left my hands, even though each represented a lot of effort to make (I made my own tiles and cut my own punchouts)

You're.. asking me to write down the things I learned while playing your game, to create a record of stuff to read through in future years. This is a tall order.

Until I did the "Sanity Tests". If you want to maintain your order... it's your game. I'm just trying to illustrate how Player Psychology affects the reaction of newbies to a game. It's not just taboo, there is a very real way to structure rulebooks to INCREASE the odds of players becoming accustomed to accept information from rulebooks.

But it's your choice to completely ignore the feedback offered by experts in working with rules and games. I personally found it a "hard pill" to swallow ... until I started realizing that what the expert was offering is a better way to consume information. It wasn't just about rules...

So some formatting/ordering:

1. Introduction (something interesting to encourage the reader to read onwards).

2. Game Components (What is the game comprised of). You want to know this because you'll want to make sure you have ALL of the component necessary to play!

3. Victory Condition. How to win the game. It seems that players ask the first question: "What am I supposed to do in this game?" And answering how to win the game is a way to help provide CONTEXT for players and their psyche. Winning may not be the most important part ... but knowing what you are supposed to be doing IS.

4. Game Play/Turn Sequence. What does a turn look like. This could be broken down into smaller phases/steps.

5. Advanced rules and maybe a breakdown of terms (such as a glossary).

6. Optional rules (steps not required to be a part of the turn sequence).

7. End of turn/Housekeeping. How to end your turn, special things that need to occur at the end of the player's turn.

Something like that. But if you use the "Sanity Test" service, you'll see what they propose. Best of luck(?!) with your game.

Sorry, I apparently mistook your advertisement for a request for feedback.

One last question I'll answer:

Peace out.

Okay, I will respond to the things you mentioned.

As far as obvious mistakes:

- The Huge G in your introduction...I think it should be sitting up higher, because currently my eyes try to read the 3 sentences aligned with it starting each word with a G (Get, Gday, Gcreate) Logicially I know it only applies to Get and the other 2 aren't actual words, but graphic design is about leading the eyes, and currently it's leading my eyes to mesh those letters together.

The multiple colors used in the Gift list section is not ideal, I think. Also the green text on the gold, outlined with white is a strain on my eyes. The same with the font used for Holiday Fever. In my (limited) experience, if you have to outline text to make it pop from the background you placed it on, then that's a weakness in graphic design. You should be able to read it without an outline. I would choose a different font, BG color, or text color if visibility is an issue.

Why is there a Gift List section? That information doesn't make sense to me. It seems like in-game info that isn't necessary to understand the game.

Alot of the images are pixelated. The blizzard BG, the stocking, the start square, etc. If they're blurry online, it'll look blurry when printed. I don't know who is doing your graphic design, but they should not be stretching images to fit the size of your template. They should be utilizing larger images so they keep a crisp quality.

The font of your rulebook seems a bit small. You chose a thin font, so even zoomed in, it kind of feels like a pain to read. I recommend bumping it up a pt or two in size.

The current arrangement of the rules is confusing and demotivates me from reading the rules. If your graphic designer sent them to you like this,t hen I would request that your designer send them to you in a 1-2-3-4 order, as that is the accepted way people in the community share their rules. You should definitely have a 2nd copy making it easier for people to give you feedback for your game.

Regarding how theme ties into the introduction:

You are heavy-handed with the theme. Your intro shouldn't have to tell me it'll become my family tradition. If it's something my family loves to do, then it will become that. Your game is actually celebrating the commercialism of Christmas, which for me, is the exact opposite of what I would want to adopt as a tradition.

I feel like there were conflicting word choices made, such as lavish Christmas, the most beautiful holiday, the biggest pile of gifts, charity, naughty or nice, etc. Reading this, it sounds like your game is all over the place. It wants to invoke sentimentalism so it becomes tradition, but it celebrates the commercial aspect of Christmas. It wants you to roll dice to be naughty or nice, but the only nice mechanic I can see in your game is charity. Your introduction serves more like an infomercial than a blurb setting the atmosphere and expectation of playing your game.

Regarding the rulebook:

-The Prepare Gifts section didn't make sense to me. I reread it 3 times and couldn't understand it.

-The Charity Token section also wasn't fully clear regarding the $100s being distributed. Took 3 times to read.

-I feel like the score cards should come with premade Christmas Trees. While I get the creativity in maing your own outline, I have seen SO MANY people who feel inferior about drawing even something as simple as that. I feel like this is a big ask, and to certain people, it's just an opportunity for their family of friends to make fun of their crappy drawing skills. Sure, you may treasure it, but it's kind of like how ALOT of people HATE candid photos (even when I personally think they're the best types of photos to take. To me there's more nostalgia and value in non-posed pictures, but I'm creative, and in the minority) The same can be said with drawing. I think the majority will balk at having to do that, so to me, it seems like an element which will detract from your game.

-Determining first player took 3 reads.

Honestly I think it's the fact that you're using terms that I haven't become acquainted with that's tripping me up. I don't know what these spaces are, the picture examples are blurry, so it all feels disconnected.

For Gameplay you don't really explain the difference between the 2 parts of the board. Mainly, why I would want to go to the calendar. Does getting the the end of the calendar signal the end game? Can I only get gifts and money by using the outer track?

If there are only 2 dice in the game, then just say dice, as the word implies plural.

Taking a Turn: Alot of your sections are worded in a roundabout way. This section could've been summed up in more concise sentences. Roll the dice, and follow the instructions when you land on a space. Consult Pg 9 for more in depth explanations on how a space works if there are questions. After play is resolved, it is the next player's turn.

I think your use of dollar symbols is really throwing me off. It makes more sense to me to say you collect 10x whatever is rolled. Does it specifically have to be collected in $10 bills? That seems odd anyway.

The December Calendar section makes no sense to me. How would I start on the 12th space as opposed to the 1st? You don't explain how to move onto it once you do something which activate the area sot hat it's no longer off-limits.

Reading this section I also realize I didn't see any stats telling me how many people can play this game or how long this game generally takes to play.

What is The Listed Doubles? And why would you write it down? Doesn't seem memory worthy? Are the odds of rolling it lower than rolling a yahtzee?

For scoring there seems to be alot of bookkeeping involved, which is usually something you want to stay away from.

This post is getting too long however, so I stopped reading the rules after that. The last of my feedback is that I have to reread the sections 2 times too often, because the order the information is given to me does not allow me to take it in properly. You should have an overview explaining what things are before you go into how to use them.

I also think your approach to create a tradition is a bit too heavy-handed. Forcing players to do things like speeches and journaling does not seem endearing to me. What if the winner got to make a speech? What if the person who won the charity pot had to actually donate to charity? What if the back of the book had different topics players could make their speech on or discuss after the game, about the spirit of Christmas, or the commercialism, or the importance of giving?

Give them structured freedom so that they know what direction to go with it, but they aren't so stuck on being forced to do X, Y, Z. To answer your last questions:

When I first saw the board, it looked way too busy. There are so many different colors present and so much text that it's overwhelming. It seemed like a headache to figure out. When I looked at the rulebook, I saw the graphic design and felt it was borderline unprofessional. It's not horrible, but when I see the pixelated images and the font choices, it tells me that someone who is not strong in graphic design was hired to do graphic design, and the designer did not do quality control.

Then I think, if they don't care about something like this, then what kind of quality control should I expect from a game they created? That being said, yes I would play a roll and move Christmas game, but I would not want to play this one, based off of what I see and have read.

Sorry for the long response, but I hope that helps.

If you want to create a game about "why we love Jesus" or "what are you most thankful for during this Holiday Season" or "name something you love about your Mon or Dad", etc. Then create a Christmas Party game that is made up of "cue cards" and various question. Call it IDK the "Christmas Trivia Game"... That will probably have more impact to the people who might enjoy that kind of "Trivia/Party" game.

Or if you want to make a game about Christmas Carolling, well then make it a Karaoke game where you sing part of the carol and then someone has to complete the missing "word" or "words" depending on the difficulty level. This way both Children and Adults can play with varying levels of difficulty.

Or if you want to make it about dressing a Christmas Tree... Develop some home-made stickers which are non-permanent and make it a contest to move from the bottom of the tree to the top where you place your STAR to win. I don't know all the details, I'm just trying to explain to you... All these ideas may be good for their own DESIGN/Game.

Trying to group them all under the same banner is a mistake (IMHO). But you'll take the criticism and try to explain to us how we are all wrong and that we don't understand what you are trying to accomplish with your game.

Focus on the positive and understand what is being explained.

Cheers and best of luck(?!) with your game.

I just can't help myself..

"Never Donate to Charity" is not "very Charitable". It's the opposite.

And a pot of money that's given out at random is a raffle.. a drawing. It's not charity. Giving it to whoever has the LEAST money? THAT would be on theme. Giving it to whoever has the least money on DECEMBER 1? THAT would actually allow a tiny amount of strategy in the game, AND be on theme.

Except that, from a gameplay perspective, I don't know why anyone would ever give more than $0. It's not true charity, going to someone truly in need, so landing on the "you may give if you want" square would not trigger any true charitable instinct in me.

For me, the fact that you push back so hard against all the people making this ONE observation shows that you (at best) came here looking for us to find typos in your manual. But this is a designer's forum.. you get design feedback.

That sounds high. For a small-format 16-page rulebook and a game board?

Even if you were paying $50/hour.. I wouldn't think that was 60 hours of work. Well, I suppose if you now own the copyright on every one of the graphic elements (like the tree, santa, elves, houses, etc. on the game board.. all drawn by the designer and not sourced from elsewhere and licensed)

You were talking about being upset about losing a prototype, but it's just a game board, a rule book, and a small deck of cards. I'd think you could print the board onto 4 sheets of paper and glue it to cardboard and you're done.. shouldn't be that hard to make more prototypes. Well worth it.

The pic on the back of my box (https://heroesandtreasure.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fheroes-treasure-pr...) is basically a shot of half of the materials in my prototype (and the tiles are double-sided).. That took a fair amount of effort to put together :) )

You're welcome. In response to some questions or notes you made:

- Yes, I think you made a mistake with the graphic designer. I'm not a professional graphic designer, but I went to school for it, and even I know better than some of the things he or she has done in your rulebook. I would greatly reconsider hiring a new graphic designer. Also, 3k is a ridiculous amount for what I'm currently seeing.

As for the blurriness, there is no reason a designer should send you a low resolution image.

1. It's a bad reflection on their work. They should be trying to convince their client that they didn't make a mistake by hiring them. They want their stuff to look its best.

2. It's a PDF, and won't be that large. Size is no reason to lower the quality. The only time size should factor into lowering the quality of something should be when it's a video.

3. If they were trying to lower the quality of the PDF, the entire pdf would look blurry and low resolution. This is how you know they stretches images individually.

4. Finally, if they made it blurry to prevent you from running off with their design...that's not a thing. You just put a watermark on the PDF and give the clean pdf once payment has been made.

So your designer has no valid reason to purposefully make things blurry. I would address that and ask them to give you the final version. Always ask your designer questions to make sure you're on the same page. Never assume things, especially when you already paid.

For your argument on non-gamers versus hobbyists, you're right. We have different standards. I would say however that the next move is up to you. How are you planning on getting your game out there. Have you playtested with 100 people? Did all 100 say they would buy your game?

If you are marketing to the average non-gamer, they're not going to want to drop more than 20 or 30 bucks on a boardgame. Looking at your game, I'd guess you would have to sell it for 40 dollars or more in order to not be in the negative. Typically it seems like small print runs still require a minimum order of 500 games, so unless you have 500 people ready to buy your game, you'll take a financial hit.

And if you decide to print on demand, the price will increase even further past that threshhold of the average consumer. That being said, you could market your game online, but unless you're well known, being on Amazon won't net you traffic, as only people specifically looking for you would find you. That means you're going to start marketing to gamers. The demographic which is actively window-shopping for new games are hobbyists, and the same marketing techniques won't work on them/us.

I, too, have a game which is easy for people to play w hen I'm there to explain, but I know my rulebook is not as clear. It's not good enough to know your game is playable and/or fun. Your rulebook needs to function for the people who won't have you there to personally teach them. Your rulebook represents you and your game to the hundreds of thousands of gamers who will never actually meet you face to face.

So if you want to throw away money that you may not see a return on for years, if ever, then do that. Some people have money to burn, so do what makes you happy, if that's the case. If you interested in making your game marketable to more than one audience however, then reconsider the parts of your rulebook that people online critique, but playtesters do not. They are experiencing two different ways to learn the game, and it's important to note the difference.