Playing with time

Thanks for replying!

Tricky brought up an excellent point, how does the game end? The more I thought about it, more and more flaws in the system seemed to pop out. So lemme revise and riff a bit as I explain it in a little more detail.

First, to get a broader picture to help visualize the context of this mechanic, the theme is light macabre (an extension, really, of the feeling one gets from reading A Night In Lonesome October). Players will be personifications of Death, though the extent these avatars follow any particular Angel of Death mythos is still up in the air. The current driving image is a black robe wrapped around a skeleton holding a scythe; slightly magical because of the character's ethereal nature, limited in power and narrowed in motivation because of divine bureaucracy, strategic and scheming because of the human will to live, and anxious to hit quota because of pretty much all of the above. It's really an amalgamation of imagery spanning from ben Levi's fable to Japan's Izanami, though the final characterization will be much more of a pop culture mish-mash ("You play as the Grim Reaper!") than an extended referential treatment with cited sources. The end game goal is to collect X number of human souls.

How are souls collected? Unfortunately I don't even have that worked out enough to begin writing about it. I know where I want these mechanics to interact with other mechanics in the game, but that's about it. So, moving on. Each player has a stack of markers distinguishable from other players' markers. When a player "helps a soul on its way," he places one of his markers on the "current time" space. Time is represented by a circular track of 12 spaces (changed from my first post, as are a lot of things...), one space for each hour on the clock. A marker rests upon Midnight at game's start, so, if the Time Marker hasn't moved, a player places his marker on Midnight when he gets a soul.

As I said, Death is sorta magical, and with that comes a modest control of time. Through the course of each turn, players can either move time ahead or move it backward. When a player moves time backward, say, from 9 to 7, any player markers on 9, 8 and 7 are removed. So, the souls don't count anymore. Additionally, time cannot move backwards past 12 o'clock. If time is moved forward beyond 12 o'clock, all current player markers are removed from the time track and considered "locked." A player doesn't need X souls locked to win, just X souls locked plus what's on the board, but a player cannot lose souls that are locked. There will also be a marker to distinguish between AM and PM.

Clear so far? I hope so. . .

I want to connect this rather complicated scoring system with the rest of the game in two places. Firstly, players will have two values (from d6's) each turn to play with. One value will be used to move time forward or backward, and the other will be used in the game proper (harvesting souls, foiling other grim reapers, etc., etc.). I don't want to use cards, so this second value will probably affect action points. Secondly, I would like player actions to be affected differently by night and day; that's what the AM and PM marker is for.

I know there is no real way to comment on how the game as a whole will turn out without more information. However, there might be pitfalls in the scoring system alone, or potential problems I should be wary of. As a mechanic on its own, knowing how I would like it to integrate with the rest of the game... any comments?

Yes! Which is a good enough idea to look at possibly changing the theme to focus more on the clock. Steampunk might be able to handle it, or some other environment where all players could have the ability to play with time. In a purely thematic sense, playing on and with the gears of the clock (beneath the face) would be fun as well. I also like the idea of doing away with the dice and having souls worth more as the clock nears midnight.

Playing with the clock directly instead of playing with the "souls" might make the actions a player can take be much more coherent. Or at least easier to design. There's lots of ways Death can take a life, and each one really should be creative. In that sense, cards are the easiest way to go about it, but I would rather not use any cards. As you mentioned, I would like to keep gameplay centered around the clock. I'll think a bit more about it. Thanks.

A quick reply before I have to run off to work.

I like the idea jjacy. Perhaps the "active" area on the face of the clock would be between the hour hand and 12 o'clock. When time moves forward, more of the clock face becomes open to play with, but when time moves backward, areas get closed off. The trick would be that all player interaction (placing pawns, markers, or whatever) upon the face wouldn't be cleared when time moved backwards or when the clock hand made a full rotation. It would simply limit the areas the players could work with. Thus, points scored in early hours would be easier to get, but points scored later would be far harder (less time to interact with those areas). Rewards would have to be balanced accordingly.

Another element could play out like this: in less of a "soul harvesting" setting, players could place pulleys and gears at places around the clock face. While they couldn't place gears outside of the active area, gears outside of the active area could still interact with those within. I'm not entirely happy with placing gears as the main mechanic... I need to think more on this. But still, the geography of the board is getting more and more defined.

Well, here's the problem.

If player 1 sets that up, and player 2 capitalizes upon it, player 3 will move the clock back negating player 2's points, player 4 will move the hand forward gaining all those points again, player 1 will move the hand back, and player 2 will capitalize upon it again. Eventually, players will just get bored and say "move on!" However, if life tokens are just removed when the clock hand passes them it seems to break the concept of actually "turning back time" if, when time is turned back, those life tokens don't reappear. That may be a necessary conceit, though. . . It might just be best to lose those life tokens completely. And if life tokens are not generic, moving time backward might give other players pause. Sure, they could screw the guy who got the most points, but they'd also lose a lot of their own.

Also, I like the idea of giving players soul counters as action points instead of just abstract "AP." For example, players are given 5 soul counters each turn. It might cost 2 soul counters to place one of them on the board, one counter to move a counter on the board, 3 to move time ahead, and 5 (or even 6) to move time backward. Moving time could be imprecise, as well; the lowest value of 2 D6, say. And if a player doesn't use all of his soul counters in one turn, he would still get five on his next turn, allowing for a stockpile to pull bigger moves on the board (at the expense of not doing anything while everyone else gets lots of points).

Interesting points, sedj.

I like the idea of time counters. It certainly could add a more strategic element to the game. I also agree that moving time ahead 1 hr a turn is a good idea. Thanks for reminding me. :) I agree that the day/night sequence would be better accustomed to a different theme (vampires/werewolves). I also agree that time would be a better game end than quota of points. I'm not worried about it being monotonous, as the game board itself won't reset after each scoring round, though I need to watch game length itself. And yes, how I go about getting points isn't ready yet. The ideas presented so far are a good starting point, but right now they leave it as a light tactical game, something I rather want to avoid.

To get my mind better into this theme, I whipped up a little drawing of the clock. Of course, it could all change (especially if most game play occurs on the board). But, here it is: link

Thanks tricky. Really, there isn't much skill in that picture. Mostly filters and selections. . .

However, I did have a little revelation tonight when trying to map out the mechanics and how they relate. First, the clock is a tactical element. I don't really see a way for it to be any other way. However, two elements affect the clock; Clock tokens (sedj's idea) and Marked Souls (a variation of ideas already presented).

On Marked Souls, I still like the idea of markers being placed upon the board that turn into "Soul Counters" when the clock hand passes them. Time kills us all, as was said. Putting a Marked Soul counter on the clock means you, as death, plan to take that particular life. This is all well and good, but still tactical, and how do you get these Marked Souls in the first place?

Well, maybe through Action Points, but that certainly isn't specific enough. The problem is, there are too many ways for a person to die. I really don't want to resort to cards, but tonight for the first time I thought, "wait, when aren't there many ways people die?" Well, that's the big epiphany. The Bubonic Plague.

So now I'm going to focus on how to turn the Bubonic Plague into a strategic game that gives players Clock tokens and Marked Souls. Much easier now with very specific elements and causes to work with. Rats, for instance.