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Different way of rolling dice

9 replies [Last post]
Thu, 03/03/2022 - 23:51
X3M
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Not sure where. But i have seen something of rolling 3 dice. Simulating 8 dice that have 50% each of succes.
The 3 dice where, each a binairy one as well?

Anyway, i want to lower the bucket of dice for some games. And 50% chances are used a lot.

It is certainly different than my penalty rolls. Where for example 6 dice of 5/6th would equal 1 die of 2/6th. In that case, it would always regard 1 projectile.

But now i am looking for multitudes of projectiles. Has anyone an idea of how or where i can find this info??

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Fri, 03/04/2022 - 08:13
#1
let-off studios
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Fudge Dice

Fudge Dice may be useful for you. There are three discrete possible outcomes, each with a 1/3 chance of occurring. The thee possibilities are:

+ or - or [blank]

Meanwhile... If you want a 50% chance of success, then you can throw any typical die and pay attention to the even/odd outcome. It may not be the most thematic of solutions, but it certainly works (provided you're throwing even-numbered dice). Plus, you won't have to ask your players to bring along a handful of coins. :)

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Fri, 03/04/2022 - 11:12
#2
X3M
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Yeah, fudge dice.

That was the name I was looking for.

But I don't think that these dice are the ones that I was looking for.

What I am looking for is a way to have a bucket of dice being reduced to a few dice.

If, let's say, 8 dice are used, with each 50% chance to hit. Then the chance on rolling 0 or 8 is the smallest. Rolling a 4 is the biggest.
Can this be done with less than 8 dice?

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Fri, 03/04/2022 - 12:21
#3
terzamossa
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Hello, not sure this is what

Hello,
not sure this is what you re looking for, in theory you could make custom dice to represent various statistical cases, e.g. have a d10 with four 4s, two 3s and 5s, one 2 and 6. Instead of having many dice for different situations you could also just make a d20 with the different stats (e.g. many of the faces would have a 50%, which means half the units hit).

Nonetheless, just as food for thoughts, what is the feeling you want the player to have? Often, mathematical fairness is not the most important thing, sometimes chucking a handful of dice just feels very good!

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Fri, 03/04/2022 - 12:36
#4
X3M
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Ah yes, to answer your question.

A handfull is often 12 dice. In the past I limited 36 rolls to 3 times that of 12. Or just 12. The problem here is that it created a feeling of unfairness with some players.

Sure we could use a bucket of dice. But then selecting the dice that hit or missed seems a bit to much of work for some. Especially if 1 round consists of 3 to 7 of these rolls.

Still, some rolls could be reduced. And a 1% difference would be in favour for all. So, one roll (1d6, 1 to 3 = fail) creates 50%. The other one (4d6, 1=fail) 48%. Even this replacement was acceptable.
The 4d6 in this example is a chance to hit or miss. It doesn't have a bell curve.

What I am looking for now.
Is to create a bell curve for multiple dice. But with less dice. If the chance to hit or miss is 50%, or another chance.
Not sure if possible.

I have been testing in anydice.
But...
output 2d{-1,0,1}+2
output 4d{0,1}

Yield somewhat the same results. But not exactly the same results. So, I am not sure.
Then again...
output 8d{-1,0,1}+8
output 16d{0,1}

I also similar. And cutting the number of dice into 2. Is a good thing.
The bell curve of the fudge seems to be wider than the original. In terms of higher end results.

I will keep on searching.

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Fri, 03/04/2022 - 18:03
#5
FrankM
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Oddball dice

One way to get bell-curve results from dice is to have lots of sides with some repeats.

But you can also look for combinations of symbols that give different chances you may be interested in.

As a concrete example, I'll use R, Y, and B (Red, Yellow, and Blue) as symbols.

White die sides: R,Y,B,RY,RB,YB
Red die sides: R,R,RY,RY,RB,RB
Yellow die sides: Y,Y,RY,RY,YB,YB
Blue die sides: B,B,RB,RB,YB,YB

The probability of any given color on the white die is 1/2, the main color of a colored die is certain, and a different color on a colored die 1/3.

Combination example: Red AND Yellow is 1/3 on a Red die, 1/3 on a Yellow die, 1/6 on a While die, and 0 on a Blue die.

In effect, if we are trying to accumulate a primary color and a bonus consisting of combos including that same color, the primary color die is worth two white dice.

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Fri, 03/04/2022 - 21:08
#6
questccg
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I remember seeing something ... And I can't find it now...

There used to be a video with BLUE dice in which a bucket full of dice (maybe upwards of 50+ standard D6s) were used to roll and somehow you could REMOVE dice from the results (somehow) and land up with only a HANDFUL of dice. There were several rolls and each time thinning the outcome of the number of dice in the dice pool...

Well need be for me to say, I CAN'T find the YouTube video any longer.

If any of you remember seeing this video ... I think one of our members SHARED this video with the rest of us. But again I can't find it...

If you bookmarked the link (check your Bookmark Manager and search for either Bucket or Dice).

I remember there were a TON of dice and re-rolling reduced the amount to only a handful of dice in the end. I THINK this is the Video that @X3M is looking for...

Thank you for all your searching...!

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Fri, 03/04/2022 - 23:13
#7
let-off studios
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Toss-Up Dice

FrankM wrote:
One way to get bell-curve results from dice is to have lots of sides with some repeats.

[...]

In effect, if we are trying to accumulate a primary color and a bonus consisting of combos including that same color, the primary color die is worth two white dice.


Oh man! You just reminded me of an old-skool dice game I played many years ago, called Toss Up!. The dice had three colours on them: red yellow, and green. It was game with ten dice included in a tiny box. The player would score points as long as they kept throwing dice and didn't end up with all red faces.

If one could upgrade their dice with more green or yellow faces (for example), the same kind of principle applies. It could also streamline results, and/or make results easier to interpret for faster play.

It was an elementary idea/design, but it just might work well in this context. If this idea is worth pursuing, I can dig out the dice and explain the original rules and the distribution of colours in a later post.

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Fri, 03/04/2022 - 23:19
#8
let-off studios
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Save Successes Only

questccg wrote:
There used to be a video with BLUE dice in which a bucket full of dice (maybe upwards of 50+ standard D6s) were used to roll and somehow you could REMOVE dice from the results (somehow) and land up with only a HANDFUL of dice. There were several rolls and each time thinning the outcome of the number of dice in the dice pool...

Not sure if this is the same process, but I was looking into Warhammer dice rolling because of the "buckets of dice" referred to in previous posts. The method recommended in a number of situations is to remove everything but successes, then throw them again for lethal results/instakills, and so on.

Doing a search on YouTube for "alternatives to rolling a lot of dice warhammer" provided a few strategies that might help in situations like this.

I also have to say that in some cases, throwing lots of dice, as terzamossa cites in a previous post, can be tremendously satisfying. :)

However, making sure the results can be usable in the context of a game or a round of combat can be a challenge at times. Warhammer and to a lesser extent Mordheim have had to address this from time to time. Fortunately the player base has found ways to address these kinds of situations and keep the game rolling, so to speak.

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Sat, 03/05/2022 - 03:25
#9
X3M
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An early playtest, bucket(s) of dice style

I decided to draw out a "very full" table with cards. 4 different tiers of weapons.
Some tiers had a different accuracy.
Some tiers had this slower weapon.
No balance or anything, just a possible round.
And ehm.... turns out that I got many little buckets of dice that can't be put in a big second bucket after the first rolls.

I compared to my prototype wargame where all the differences are. (My prototype wargame is a slow and big wargame where a round could take an hour. And players do some 3 digit math with adding substracting and multiplications)

The number of dice pools are the conclusion.

Army positions:
Prototype has each player sort out their frontline, middle and support line.
Cardgame has the attacking player attack with each card on a target. The defending player can choose free cards to block an card that is being attacked.
Free cards are cards that are not exhausted, nor attacked at that point.

Army configuration:
Both games can have a full mix.
But the cardgame has all types together.
While the prototype has them grouped further appart due to weapon range and/or movement speeds. And also attributes sort the army. But it is possible to have a mix of 9. It is just that this is very small compared to the cardgame. Either way, 6 colours often are more than enough for even subtiers of the same damage type.

Army size:
The cardgame has them all...
The prototype has 3 to 7 groups per round.
But the combat regards for 1 group. This group has much smaller numbers than the cardgame.

Penalty rolls:
The prototype has this prior. All dice can be rolled. The penalty roll can be reduced to lesser rolls.
The cardgame has this afterwards. But it is per target...

Accuracy rolls:
The prototype has this right after the penalty rolls. All remaining dice can be rolled.
The cardgame has this as a first roll. Per target, some dice can be combined. But this is rare.

Damage rolls:
Reserved for the prototype game only. This is the last remaining roll, with the most fun.

Health tracking:
Prototype game only...
It is not an oof, but requires math and handling. Both a downtime for the players.

Damage distribution:
The prototype has the attacking player decide where the damage goes. Frontline goes first. Untill it is small enough.
The cardgame has this at the beginning. And the result at the end is rarely distributed. If 2 or more different cards block the target. Only then the attacking player gets to choose.

RPS strength and effect:
The prototype game has players only attack squads vs squads. And they often do that ofnthere is hardly a block. The average kill result is roughly 1/3th per squad per round in the vanilla version. This becomes less when more than 7 squads are present. With 18 squads, the percentage drops to 10%.
The cardgame was supposed to have this on 50%. But units are more expensive. The average is lowered to 37%. Then we got the blocking mechanic...
Per tier difference, a factor of 1/3th.
With 3 tiers in mind. 4% remains...

Conclusion...
A cardgame that is supposed to have less downtime and less rolls. Turns out the opposite.
This shows how important it is to playtest. And not waste time on "small talks".
I need to go back to the drawing board.

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