Help in adding Strategy/Depth

Maybe a sort of "guessing" game on a turn. Like everyone puts down a card and the player with the KEY card MUST play it down. Player #1 chooses one of the three (3) other cards and then they exchange cards. And play continues until all players have had a turn.

What's the point???

Well it's pretty much like Poker and bluffing. You KNOW ONE (1) of the four cards IS THE KEY card. Which player has it, hmmm... Maybe you can deduct this using keen observation or body signals, etc.

So let me give you a more CLEAR example:

All players play one (1) card down. Player #3 has the KEY card.

Player #1 starts and chooses Player #2 card. Player #2 continues and choose Player #4 card. Player #3 is next and MUST choose another player to GIVE the KEY card to. Player #3 choose Player #2. And lastly Player #4 chooses Player #2 ... And ultimately Player #4 earns the KEY card...

Now WHY do all of this???

Well you can CREATE all kinds of EVENT cards that act like INSTANTS. In my example, Player #2 could have played a "CANCEL EXCHANGE" event which nullifies a trade, or a "SKIP YOUR TURN" and Player #4 would not get the chance to play. I'm sure you can think up a TON of Events ... That are FUN and have all kinds of consequences.

Again this is a bit different from the other EVENTS in your game... I'm just trying to give you some IDEAS to work with... See if you MIGHT be able to incorporate some or all of the elements of this design into your own game. Cheers!

Note #1: This is triggered by an EVENT card. Meaning that it could be a mini-game within the game itself. So much like passing your entire hand to another player or simultaneously drawing one card... The BLUFF Event (that's all I got for a name ATM) occurs to add some INFO as to where the card is. In my previous example, three (3) players know who HAS the card at the end of the exchange: Player #3 who originally had it, Player #2 who got it from Player #3 and lastly Player #4 who stole it from Player #2!

The only Player who knows NOTHING is Player #1!!! See how that can add some deducting power! So three (3) players think its Player #4 ... But then on the next turn Player #2 plays a "Swap cards" with WHO??? Obviously with Player #4 ... Because HE KNOWS Player #4 got the card in the last BLUFF event... And then Player #1 can deduct this fact too because everyone is targeting Player #4 ... It must mean that HE/SHE has the KEY card!

Interesting, no??? Just thinks for you to think about! Cheers.

Make every card to have 2 Actions. This way if you have one card that is for "Exchange one of your cards with any one from an opponent of your choice", the other Action could be "Skip your turn by playing this card". This might make the game more complex ... Because now you need to figure out what "pairings" of Actions that you want on each card.

This was only ONE (1) example. But something like this could allow you to have "work-arounds" for the various EVENTS in your game.

The reason I say you "May not like it" is because it makes playtesting a bit harder to do. Now instead of ONLY worrying about ONE (1) Ability per card, you need to concern yourself with TWO (2)!

What you could do is lower the Hand Limit like from 8 cards to 5 cards... For example. And a player can Draw ONE (1) Card at the start of his/her turn. This would LIMIT the amount AP (Analysis-Paralysis) because you have LESS cards to choose from.

I wasn't too sure IF you had Card Drawing from the pile. BUT if you do... This is a good solution...

Now I had a SECOND idea: Each card has an EVENT (involving the other players) AND it has a PERSONAL ability (involving only the Player -- YOU -- The player with the card).

So while the EVENT could be "Exchange one card with the opponent of your choice.", it's personal ability could be "Discard this card"...

See what I mean? Again two (2) abilities but in this case there would be TWO (2) TYPES of actions: Group and Personal.

Another Personal could be: "Draw +1 Card from the Deck"... or "Skip your turn this time around" ... etc.

This version might be SIMPLER since there are TWO "TYPES" of Actions. I personally like Group vs. Personal better than just 2 Actions. It seems more appropriate... If you know what I mean!

And it is less likely to create AP if you control the Hand Size and size of the overall Deck.

Let me know what you think ... And maybe you could share with us more of the type of Actions that there are. To see if we can HELP with the Group vs. Personal Actions...

Cheers!

What is the THEME of the game. I fully understand the Victory Condition and that's to be the player with the KEY card when there is a player with 1 or no cards.

The reason I ask this... Is because your card effects seem a bit "mechanical". Not that it's wrong or nothing... It's just I'd like to see if we can "abstract" them somehow.

And the "theme" can help me figure out what kind of "theme-related" decisions can be made.

I know this may sound strange ... But some times when we FOCUS on the theme, the abstraction results in more "depth of play". I know it will all be SIMILAR to a "mechanical" version ... But with a smidgen of abstraction via the theme... We may just get more refined set of effects.

Anyways that's my weird question (for now)!? Like IF we are Rogues all trying to unlock a Magical Chest and the player who ends up with the key, gets to keep the treasure... And the goal is to "steal" back the key because you deserve the treasure! lol

Or you are a Band of Misfits who have been thrown into Jail in Antigua for Pirateering and only one of you (the future Captain) can get the key to escape from the Jail... (I like this one... It's Pirates but different).

Anyways these are some of my own "theme" ideas when thinking about YOUR game. If you let me know YOUR theme... Well that will help to open up what is possible or not. It'll make it easier (to say the least).

Cheers!

Note #1: Like with my Pirate theme ... You could require TWO (2) items AT ANY TIME, you win the game. So if you have the KEY and the BALL & CHAINS... You ESCAPE and are the victorious Pirate.

See how a THEME can "inject" some interesting depth of the game...

Why is this important???

Well for ONE (1) ... You don't worry about the 2 Actions/Effects anymore, your goal would be to get BOTH cards simultaneously. Something MINOR like that could change the game... But "open-it-up" at the same time.

So before I continue to think about "improvements" ... Please let us know your THEME and from there we'll see how it can be improved upon.

Well you need a card called: "FIREWALL". This is the "Cancel/Stop" any other card event. Like say someone is going to play the "REPROGRAM" card with you... You can STOP/CANCEL it by playing the "FIREWALL" card/effect.

What is the logic...?! Well it's like someone was trying to "Hack into your domain to look at your files" and they cannot get by YOUR "Firewall"... This was better than an earlier thought.

Having the "PASSCODE" and "VIRUS" card ends the game... Everyone loses. Why? Because the "Virus infects the passcode making it useless to everyone..." Something along the lines of this sounds reasonable.

(More thoughts to come... Just off the top of my head... Cheers!)

Note #1: "COMPUTER CRASH" is like a "Skip your NEXT Turn" which you play AGAINST any other player. So while he/she would be hacking ... His/her turn they cannot because their "computer crashed"...!

I also like the IDEA of having a "BACKUP DRIVE" where you can place any one (1) file that cannot be stolen from you. However that file CANNOT be the "PASSCODE" or "VIRUS".

Getting BACK to the MATCHING idea (which you kinda liked)... Matching could be cool because it is "compatible" with the "BACKUP DRIVE" (in terms of concepts).

I will think more about this... I've already given you some effects/event cards and other "Play Areas" ("BACKUP DRIVE") where you can safely store one (1) file for future use...

Enough for now ... These should be some things to think about for now... Like I said, I'll wait until I get more thoughts about MATCHING in the context of a Hacking/Cyberpunk-type game.

Note #2: A "RESTORE FILE" card which allows you to Take the 3 TOPMOST files from the "RECYCLE BIN" and place one of them into your "BACKUP DRIVE" (which must contain no file for the transfer to occur)...

Again some more "flavor" with the concept making use of the discard pile and secretly choosing one of the three (3) cards in it (for future use). This is a bit of a memory game too... (Knowing when to RESTORE... And which cards are on the top of the discard pile)!

Note #3: To reveal a Domain (A HAND of cards) ... that could be called "OPEN SOURCE" which would mean all those "files" are OPEN SOURCE and revealed to the player who PLAYED the "OPEN SOURCE" effect...

Note #4: "FILESHARING": exchange three (3) files with the agent of your choice. "FILEDUMP": steal one file from the agent of your choice. Again more effects/events that could occur.

Note #5: "CORRUPTED FILE": force one agent to discard one of his files into the Recycle Bin. (Basically your run-of-the-mill DISCARD operation).

Note #6: Replace "Memory Bank" with "RECYCLE BIN". Seems more naturel TBH. For a better discard name...

His game reminds me of the First Edition of "Quest Adventure Cards(tm)" (Quest). It may be a different "theme" ... But the concept is relatively similar. How/Why?

Well in Quest you have "Steal a Quest", "Steal a Card", "Pass your turn", "Pass one card to your opponent", "Each player gives a card to you", etc. Similar to "PASSCODE" but different theme.

I couldn't get any traction with Quest because the game was TOO SIMPLE. Kids loved it. But marketing to kids is VERY HARD. I'd rather design games for Teenagers because some of them have part-time jobs, home chores (allowances) and such ... That they have a bit of disposable income.

If Millennials LIKE the game... 18+ well then I've designed a game with a much "broader appeal". That in my book is the best types of designs... Of course I would never discourage simpler designs ... You can still maybe get the game "out-there" into players hands. I'm not as gifted with sales to be able to do that for the younger kids... But nothing wrong with TRYING!

Note #1: If a 9 year-old likes the game... The question on everyone's mind is: "Will the parent spend $20 to buy the game for his child???" Is there sufficient INTEREST or is it just passing interest.

So good for a little while but not enough for a parent to PAY for the game. Know what I mean??? Whereas a Teenager or Millennial will decide then and there: "I can buy it for $20, do I?" The older the player the more likely if they LIKE the game, they'll pickup a copy!

Note #2: Games which focus on "Set Collection" and "Hand Management" are too simple in terms of designs. How do I know this??? Well I designed Quest and as my First Design ... Yeah, I realize that the game is much TOO SIMPLE. It also had some "Take-That" and that too was not enough (in terms of the design)...

All my current games do NOT focus on "Set Collection" and have minimal "Hand Management". I make the games about OTHER "Mechanics" like "Area Control", "Programing", "Deck-Construction", "Push-You-Luck" (PYL), "Engine Building", etc. More complex mechanics which require a more older crowd of gamers.

But a GOOD game is still a good game. Even if it is SIMPLE. Quest got a 3/10 rating from Purple Pawn ... Because he felt like the game just did not have enough. Of course, maybe I should have told him the game was made for 9 year-olds... Maybe that would have had an impact!

I like the "Hold" Area concept. Maybe this be a color-coordinated set of "files". Maybe the goal is to get "5" of the SAME color + the "PASSCODE" to win the game...

And opponents may play other cards of a different color ... In this case to remove the "blocking file" you MUST "perform the action" of that card and then THAT card gets discarded.

Just some other thoughts on a different "TYPE" of matching. Cheers!

Note #1: As I let the concept just "flow"... I realized that I had something of an alternate idea (or maybe another version).

If your "Hold" Area concept was managed by COLORS: one (1) color per player. You could START with a 4 Player game (ergo 3 colors each player excluding your own color).

Now instead of just having the "PASSCODE" ... You'd need access to the domain of the opponent. So you are trying to get the REQUIRED "files" to access his/her domain. Again an opponent can PLAY OTHER colors to try to "block" you ... And when you have 5 same-color "files" you have access to the opponent's domain and then with the PASSCODE gain access to his network. At this point, THAT player is "defeated" (he/she has lost).

Play continues with the other remaining players and their domains. Ultimately you try to be the LAST one standing... With the PASSCODE to win the game over your opponent.

I think THIS type of game would be "better" because it is MORE than pure "hand management" and the "set collection" is complicated by the opponents. So it's not all-that simple.

Just some more ideas as I had promised the other day. Cheers!

Note #2: What if the FILES had "two colors": One color on the frontside and one color on the backside. Why?!

Well what if the cards FRONTSIDE (viewable by all) have a COLOR and then on the FLIP-SIDE the color is "secret" until revealed.

Play would be about "flipping" cards and trying to secure (maybe?) four (4) in a sequence (Like Tic-Tac-Toe)... And then use the PASSCODE to access the ROOT of that agent's computer and SHUTTING him down!

Again these are JUST "general" ideas. I have NOT fleshed them out... Just offering you ALTERNATIVE ideas to help remove much of the randomness and replace it with some kind a semi-complex strategy which could add some more DEPTH/STRATEGY to the game.

Of course, you would probably need to ADAPT the ideas... Like I'm saying they're only IDEAS ATM.

Note #3: I (personally) really LIKE the "flipping cards" idea (with the colors). How about ADD ROTATION too!!!???

What if instead how ONLY having cards in your HAND, you also have a COMMON field of cards based on 4 players: 16 = 4 x 4 (4 players) Grid.

At the start of the game, the "Cloud" is randomly built using cards from a Deck. Each player draws one "File", looks at BOTH sides and then plays it into one of the empty spaces (16 at the very start).

Players can ALTER the "Cloud" to get "Random Access" to the "File" they need. Flipping a "File" is like a "RENAME" (Rename because the file is different now). Rotating a "File" is like a "CHOWN" (Change Owner of the file. And means that you ROTATE the card Counter-Clockwise OR Clockwise.

A "MOVE" in the "Cloud" is like a swap between two (2) cards in the "Cloud"... I know it doesn't sound too easy... But that's sort of the IDEA ... Add some more DEPTH such that the game is much more "sophisticated".

A "SAVE" in the "Cloud" is to take one card (facing your direction) and putting it into the "BACKUP DRIVE" (provided you don't already have a file as a backup).

Again some more idea dumps to see what might interest your FANCY! Cheers.

Hi, you may want to have a look at the game Love Letter. This sounds a lot like that?

Maybe there can be a "hidden component" as part of the game. Like say for 4 Players you get nine (12) cards (4 cards x 3 players) of a randomized assortment of cards. You can VIEW your own cards at any time ... But your opponent CANNOT (since they are face down!)

What you are trying to do is to "MOVE" the cards around to re-organize them such that your have FOUR (4) of the SAME color in one of the three (3) ROWS.

Then when you have the "Passcode" card, you can access the domain using the "Files" in your area of PLAY. You would then reveal all 4 cards and the Passcode and that player would be eliminated from the game.

This is a "Working-idea". That means it's not 100% fleshed-out. Just some concepts to think about and see how to adapt/improve them. I'm just trying to make the Hand Management more about the "Files" in front of you and less about ACTUAL "Hand Management" (I pass my entire hand to player X, etc.) Cheers!

Yeah maybe since you DON'T want "Player Elimination" maybe you should setup 3 or 4 Categories. What I mean since you like the idea about have the files setup in play (in front of the player, face-down)... Maybe you have some kind of SET-UP you are aiming to achieve.

Right now, I'm trying to NOT work with the theme... You can re-skin the concept once you have something that is working.

For example: Make it 4 x 4 = 16 cards laid out in front of you.

The idea is to obtain ONE (1) Series of FOUR (4) Cards to "unlock" and PLAY the "Passcode" to WIN the game.

The idea is to MOVE files from one network to another. So let's say there are 4 colours. There are also 4 matching cards in each COLOUR but they must be in the correct order: 1-2-3-4 + Passcode to WIN.

Right now I'm using NUMBERS ... But you can make this something more thematic at a later time.

You may force a card UP or DOWN, or RIGHT or LEFT. But only one card. And it forces the card to move a position and subsequent cards realign.

So if you have in ROW #2: 3 4 1 2 and you push the "2" to the RIGHT, the result is: 2 3 4 1 (you push all the other cards).

If it's a COLUMN #3 (and you push the "1" DOWN):

3 1
2 3
4 2
1 4

Sliding the remaining of the cards. YEAH this is MORE COMPLEX. But I also think it's MUCH cooler than simply swapping cards. AND it setups only ONE possible match at a time (because it is harder too).

Something like this could be REALLY cool IMHO. Never seen this kind of re-arranging (ok maybe I have seen it on Survivor! The Reality Show...) Or those miniature puzzle games... Anyhow not in a Cyberpunk game with cracking and hacking your way to success.

Let me know if you have any questions.