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Tapping into the "hidden" grid on a hex board

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bottercot
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Hello everyone,

I haven't really posted here for a while. I just wanted to pop in to get your opinions on a unique mechanic that I recently decided to add to my game.

I am making a civilization-building game very reminiscent of the Sid Meier's series of board games. Over time, I have altered mechanics and slowly drifted away from the original inspiration, and recently I was trying to find a way to work Units on the board.

Basically, I have a "worker placement" mechanic where each hex has a "commodity" that you can harvest during a certain phase of the game, but only if you have a worker on it. The problem this created is that there wasn't enough room on the hexes to hold both Workers and Units (i.e. military) without occluding information and making a visual mess.

So what was my solution? Completely relocate Unit movement to a different plane.

Recently I played a game of Catan with my family, and although we messed up the resource placement and it wasn't the most fun game I've played, it still inspired me to rethink what I had been doing. I realized that there are a lot of games that made use of hexagon grids for movement and terrain and such, but there are very few games that use hexagon EDGES. It's basically a triangular grid overlaying a hexagonal one and it feels like almost completely untapped potential.

I think it also leads to some very interesting movement mechanics. New questions are brought up that need to be answered. How does this affect Unit movement? How do Units interact with Terrain? How does warfare play out on this more limited grid? It feels fresh and I am very excited to test out and play around with this new set of mechanics.

What do you all think? How many games have you seen that use a triangle grid for movement? Have you seen any combine both a hexagon and triangle grid? Do you think this may, perhaps, be too complex for a game?

All thoughts and discussion are welcome. Thank you!

X3M
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grids and movement

I assume you are talking about moving over the sides of the hexagons.

Because the movement grid of a hexagon grid is already that of a triangular grid.
While the squared grid has a squared movement grid to begin with.

Although, perhaps you are thinking of the number of directions as well. Then indeed, the hexagon has 6 directions. While the squared grid remains at 4.
Of course one could argue, that a squared grid has 4 more directions, named the diagonal directions.
Then in my turn, I have used dodecagon as well.

Which is in a way, making use of the sides of hexagons as well.

I can't really picture how it is a triangular grid when you use the sides of the hexagons only. Perhaps you are talking about the directions. That is the only thing I can think about now. But how does it play into the hexagons themselves? How are units placed from one hexagon to another?
Maybe you can add a picture of what you meant to the top of this topic.

bottercot
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Clarification

Hello,

I should have clarified. Virtually every game I have played that uses a hexagon grid and movement mechanics assumes that each hexagon is its own "space," on which units or other things are placed, and movement takes place from one hexagon to another, treating the edges as points of adjacency between these spaces. The specific system that I am planning on using has Units placed on the "corners" between hexagons, with each edge acting like a route between two corners. Thus it functions like a triangle grid, with each corner, or "space," having three connections to other spaces. I've never played any games featuring a triangle grid as a medium for moving units around, so I'm really interested to see how it will affect gameplay. Adding on to that the system of a hexagon board where each hex is a specific terrain type only makes it even more interesting.

X3M
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Then why simply not use a triangular grid?

Then why simply not use a triangular grid?

https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/633/why-are-there-fewer-b...

This link shows some pictures related to this.

questccg
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Intersection of three (3) hexes

bottercot wrote:
I realized that there are a lot of games that made use of hexagon grids for movement and terrain and such, but there are very few games that use hexagon EDGES...

Another option is "where" the THREE Hexes intersect that becomes a point for a UNIT. So a UNIT can be next to three (3) spaces on the board. Not like Catan... But inspired by Catan. The hexagon EDGES as you explained are like Catan. However where three (3) hexagons INTERSECT, that I don't think I've seen this being used in any other game(s).

Just another POV!

X3M
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keep in mind

The distance from coprner to corner is shorter than from the centre of a hexagon to the centre of another hexagon.

It might actually become more crowed.

terzamossa
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Hello, is this what you

Hello,
is this what you mean?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eI2efq6vjEVsm3XLkTiID9e_F7P3JDcr/view?u...
(PS is there no better way to upload an image here?)

This is a triangle grid above a hex one, which is the same concept expressed by others here as "using the interception" but considering only 3 of them for each space.

Maybe I didn't understand and I am totally off. Anyway, What I would think is that this doesn't make clear who is controlling one space. Movement would work fine, but in each hexagons there would be 4 overlapping triangles.

Unless, this is wanted, and in that case you would have that the player who controls the space is the one with troups in the central triangle. Troups over the edges do not control ground but are ready to be deployed to the next space (unlike those in the central triangle) or to defend it. I don't think it is too complex (on its own, then it depends how it interacts with the rest) if this is the idea, it could be interesting. But also if the goal was that of simplifying things I don't think this is helping you :)

X3M
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terzamossa wrote: (PS is

terzamossa wrote:

(PS is there no better way to upload an image here?)

Unfortunately, after all these years. No...

bottercot
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@questccg This is exactly

@questccg
This is exactly what I'm talking about! I called them "corners" but "intersection" is a more accurate (if longer) term. It's definitely the intersection where I want to put Units.

@X3M
Overcrowding is a worry I have. The reason I have chosen to use a hexagon grid instead of a triangle grid is because of the functionality of hexes in my game. Each hex has a specific "Commodity" on it and a place to put a Worker. During one of the first phases of the round, all players harvest and gain a copy of each Commodity on which they have placed a Worker. There's also a mechanic of settling Cities and replacing these Commodity hexes with hexes containing "Districts" which provide other resources (but still require a Worker). Adjacency plays a large part in how you're allowed to place Districts and Workers. This set of mechanics works better for hexagons because it gives you more options in terms of adjacency.

My main issue came when I tried to add in a "Unit" mechanic on top of the hexagon-Commodity-District-Worker-Placement mechanic. Wherever I placed Units on the hexagons, they would occlude some important information. Plus, with my current "budget," I have to rely on printing and cutting out my own cardboard components, and trying to juggle around so many flat-ish pieces on a single small hexagon would get really fiddly. So my solution is to move Units to the "triangle grid" where each "space" is the intersection of three hexagons and the hexagon edges act like connection points, or "routes," between spaces.

There are still concerns about things becoming overcrowded or fiddly, but since I don't need to include too much information on the hexagons aside from a visual spot for a Worker and an icon or number corresponding to a specific "Commodity" or Resource, I can shrink them down and dramatically increase the gaps between hexagons.

I also think the more restricted movement of the triangle grid works better for war mechanics since it creates more choke points and makes it harder for Units to retreat or maneuver. I've also worked with hexagons for the majority of the games I've developed so triangles are a change of pace.

@terzamossa
Unfortunately, I tried to access the document you linked but was denied. I have sent a request so if you see that please grant me access.

Control is a major problem. My entire idea of "control" is based around Cities and distinct borders where one City ends and another starts. As long as I know which player owns a City, I can have a basic idea of what territory they control.

There are, however, contest areas between Cities that belong to whoever places a Worker there first, or whoever "controls" the hex through use of Military. In terms of determining who "controls" this middle ground, I have two options:

Option 1: Majority adjacency. Whoever has the most Military Units adjacent to a Middle Ground Territory controls it and may place a Worker on it. As soon as one player gains the advantage in adjacent Units the other player must remove their Worker. This system isn't great because a) it takes too much math for what it is and b) ties will come up constantly.

Option 2: Adjacency control. Each Military Unit has the ability to "block" adjacency through all edges adjacent to their space. With this system whichever player places their Worker there first gets immediate control, but if either player uses Military Units to "block" the adjacency between the rest of their City and one of these conflict hexes, that player must remove their Worker. This system is still annoying because you have to be constantly checking for whether you block adjacency between another player's hexes. Perhaps I could make it a purposeful action on the aggressor's part rather than a constant rule.

Hopefully that clears things up a bit :)

terzamossa
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I granted you access, sorry

I granted you access, sorry for that!
Also, I think I understood what you meant and has nothing to do with what I thought :)
You mean troupes only move through the edges, from one intersection to the other, so they do not belong to any of the 3 spaces they touch basically.
I think it can work nicely, especially if only one unit can be in one intersection at the same time!

X3M
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Information on the hex

You made a good point about that.
I too had troubles with that at a certain point. The only solution is to simplify the hexagon texture to such a point that players could tell by the edges.

In the past, I had ridges on the borders of the hexagons. This had some bad concequences for the edges of the map or if the ridges had a different textures. It was all very bad.

pelle
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Wizard Kings has both hex

Wizard Kings has both hex terrain and hex-sides terrain. I think they managed to make the map graphics clear enough that it is never difficult to tell what is what. Units still move from hex to hex. The terrain in the hex is mostly used for combat, and the terrain along hex-sides is mostly used for movement (a bit of a simplification, but close).

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/258459/wizard-kings

There is a series of ww1 wargames called Der Weltkrieg that splits each hex into 6 triangles that can each have its own terrain. I never played it and do not know the details. But units are still placed in hexes and move from hex to hex. Not sure how the terrain is applied.

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/1686944/grand-campaign

Speaking of triangular grids (which kind of movement between hex vertices is), this game from 1817 did that:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/252156/das-krieges-spiel

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/4108440/pelni

There are diagrams in the rulebook describing for different types of units what triangles they can move or attack into, which looks like it might work (I printed my own copy of the game, but it is still in my unplayed pile). Not much of terrain in that game other than a river across the middle of the map that you can only cross if you put an engineer unit adjacent.

If a game has terrain in hexes, but movement along the edges, that sounds like it could be difficult to represent well. Maybe switching to using triangles would make it easier to read the map, or more like point-to-point movement where you put terrain indicators on the vertices (which is basically the same as terrain in triangles of course).

X3M
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pelle wrote: There is a

pelle wrote:

There is a series of ww1 wargames called Der Weltkrieg that splits each hex into 6 triangles that can each have its own terrain. I never played it and do not know the details. But units are still placed in hexes and move from hex to hex. Not sure how the terrain is applied.

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/1686944/grand-campaign


I had something similar in the far past.
But I had the water also filling a triangle.
But in the game you shared, the water follows the rivers on said edges of the hexagons.

https://shop.decisiongames.com/v/vspfiles/photos/SPW108-5.jpg?v-cache=13...

I think that players are required to count the triangles of each hexagon. In order to determine certain rolls.

Nowadays, I prefer a pure or a mix of only 2 terrains. So that at one glance a rule is set.

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