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What about ICONS for keywords???

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questccg
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@Man_Over_Game (Daniel) brought up the topic and "keywords" for "Card Games"... And while I commented on his thread:

https://www.bgdf.com/node/23295

I was wondering instead of KEYWORDS what about ICONS...? While I can have a bunch of keywords, I dislike the verboseness of "Interrupt" which allows an ability to activate and ANY given time. It basically stops what is going on, takes the action and then the game can continue normally.

I would of course "include" the description with the "ability". But instead of having the word "( Interrupt )" as an ICON INSTEAD.

Maybe an Circle with an "I" in the middle (with a drop shadow)... Could this be something that replaces the LARGE and very VERBOSE "text"???

Please let me know your thoughts/feedback/comments. Cheers!

let-off studios
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Let the Masters Guide You

So what do they do with Magic: the Gathering? Do they use icons for that sort of thing? What about Pokemon? I know there are other dueling games out there, but those are the first two that come to mind when thinking of this genre.

How much of the given dueling game is similar to M:tG, and does the use of an icon work well in that context?

...I suppose I am of two minds when I come to this issue. On the one hand games like those I've mentioned above have been around a long, long time and have pretty much set up the conventions for duel card games. On the other hand, I understand the urge to innovate, be different, and to "stand out in a good way" from the competition or whatever.

I would suggest - my own opinion being rather anecdotal as opposed to professional - if your game is like M:tG, consider the same conventions it uses in terms of keywords and icons. However if you deliberately want to go against the grain of this, make sure the rest of the game is, too. To do otherwise is to risk player impressions to be something like, "Well, it's just like Magic, but the icons and keywords are all messed-up."

There seems to also be a big push to use icons as much as possible, due to the relative ease of localizing language-neutral versions of the game. You may butt up against some cultural symbolism and mores from time to time, but in the world of hobby games this doesn't seem to be a significant issue.

Man_Over_Game
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I know that the Arkham Horror

I know that the Arkham Horror Card Game does this. It'll use symbols for things like "Trigger", "Action", stats/checks (of which there are 4), Token symbols and so on.

It works out rather well, and probably could have been taken even further (such as having symbols for physical or mental damage) without much issue. Thinking about it, even the monsters use symbols to indicate the quantity and type of damage they deal, the trend just wasn't continued on the player cards for some reason.

terzamossa
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I personally used a lot of

I personally used a lot of icons in my early prototypes, then I stripped down at least 70% of that as I noticed it makes the game much harder to learn for new players. But I must say I am doing that also for Keywords.
e.g. Instead of [Attack] 3 [RANGE] 3, I now write: Attack up to 3 spaces away: [damage]x3
It's way longer. Still, since I started doing it no players have doubts anymore. Less time spent learning the game, more time spent enjoying it.

Overall I think that Keywords and Icons should be used for terms that repeat so often that the barrier of learning them for new player is more than balanced by how many times they are going to see them in the cards.

questccg
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Yeah I agree... Plus the icons seem to be their own language

A circle with an "I" can be representative of a "KEYWORD" ... But it's not at all obvious. So I went ahead and made a minor correction by making the "KEYWORD" stand-out a bit. Take a look at it here:

https://www.bgdf.com/blog/archon-circlet-heavens-%E2%80%94-new-ideas#com...

I think it looks good, takes up LESS space than the TEXT (VERBOSE) version "( Interrupt )" and immediately is understood and OBVIOUS that this ability is a bit different than the others. The older version can be seen here:

https://www.bgdf.com/blog/archon-circlet-heavens-%E2%80%94-new-ideas#com...

Thank you all for your WISE advice... This NEW version seems much clearer!

Note #1: Also "@let-off studios" mentioning what OTHER games do and I thought that was important too. In Magic, there is a reserved area for the TYPE of card (Lands, Creatures, Enchantments, Artifacts, Instants, and Sorceries) and it is very obvious which card is which.

But my game is very different from Magic. You can have multiple abilities per card and so for EACH "Ability", you need to describe if it has some kind of Modifier which makes it more unique.

However so, my conclusion is better to write the entire WORD for clarity. So far there are ONLY five (5) Keywords in my game. If there are more, well then for sure this will require more memorization (which is not my goal at all...)

questccg
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I've tweaked the "Interrupt" Ability just a tad...

I thought "-3 DMG" protection is a LOT. It could be a "Smoke Screen 3" Ability instead of a "Smoke Screen 1" Ability (which is the current Ability on the Coal Miner Orc's card).

Making the card more reasonably rated... Ensure more expandability in the future!

Cheers.

questccg
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My OWN Keywords ATM

So like I said, I don't have too many regular "Keywords" (not the 30+ list) but instead "essential" ones that affect the game.

BUT I need YOUR help finding the right NAMES!

1. Forward: before the negotiations take place (PRE).
2. Interrupt: during the negotiations take place (DURING).
3. Counter: after the negotiations take place (POST).
4. Permanent: from this point onwards (until the end of Round).

What I DON'T LIKE is #1 (Forward). The others are Okay! So anyone have any suggestions of a better "before" name (generic)?!

Please feel free to comment/give feedback/offer ideas... Many thanks!

questccg
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Bumping this thread...

In the event that anyone has a better name that "Forward", I would be grateful for your contribution...! Please let me know if you have any additional thoughts about this ability name which occurs PRIOR to a "negotiation" (Negotiation is the process by which the RPS-3 is resolved and a lane victor is determined).

Many thanks!

let-off studios
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Prepare, etc.

questccg wrote:
In the event that anyone has a better name that "Forward", I would be grateful for your contribution...!
Would something like "preparation" work for this? Maybe "counsel" or "mobilize"?

Here's a link to "prepare" on thesaurus.com:
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/prepare

larienna
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Icons in text like in AH, EH,

Icons in text like in AH, EH, etc, are interesting, but you need to design your own font which can be complicated. Icons elsewhere than text is recommended. Keywords are also recommended as it allow you to know in a glance what the card does, but I think the best way to do it is like in magic the gathering. Put in parenthesis the meaning of the ability.

Now I can give you bad example of keywords and icons:

Epic card game: they almost only use keywords, but the words are not intuitive so you constantly need to check the instruction booklet.

Kaijudo: This is a remake of duel masters. They decided to convert all text abilities into keywords. Which made it a bit heavy to read. But I think they put the description anyway, so it did not matter much. I think keywords should be used on common abilities.

Race for the galaxy: They strictly use icons, and it is very confusing to know what a card can do, it feel like reading hieroglyph.

51st state: This is the same thing, all abilities are as icons. You constantly need to look at the reference sheet to know what the abilities can do.

pelle
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You do not need your own font

You do not need your own font for icons in text, and in fact that solution will not even work in many applications (since most treat fonts as single-color, so icons could only be monochrome). My extension for making cards in Inkscape supports icons in text (using the syntax {filename.png}) and I am 99% certain that nandeck and most other dedicated card generators do it as well.

I think icons both in text and elsewhere is great, as long as there are only a few you have to memorize, and as long as their meaning is always obvious. Please never do like in Roll/Race for The Galaxy or 7 Wonders where they almost invented their own cryptic language of icons and symbols on the cards that I never learn how to interpret so have to memorize the exact use of every card anyway.

larienna
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Good to know that it can be

Good to know that it can be done with inkscape.

In Arkham/Eldritch Horror, the icons are generally on your character sheet, so it's relatively easy to match.

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