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Why a SpaceGame (part 2)

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Mon, 02/03/2025 - 04:26
#61
X3M
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Very simple upgrades?

A warp jump generator.
The ship can still he attacked.
The shields still won't work.
The cost is the ship itself.
The jump is the same speed plus 2.
Meaning, a ship with movement 4. Can move 12 in a round. But with the warp jump generator, it moves 3x 10. Thus 30 in a round.

Excessive? Most likely.

As for the weapon upgrade.
An artillery upgrade is possible in the exact same way. Attack range is added once more. With an additional 2.
Attack range 4? It now becomes 10.
Bomber with 0? It is now 2.
The cost equals the weapon.

I can revert back to gravity costing movement speed. The warp jump is a good help here anyways.

As for a shield that is always active?
It should still be depending on movement speed.
The cost is (total Sp + 2) x Shield cost.
If a shield costs 2 and the speed is 4 plus that warp jump. The cost of adding this shield would be 24.

I should be carefull with what kind of upgrades I add. But the extra costs and effectd should be as simple as possible.

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Mon, 02/03/2025 - 15:15
#62
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The basics for now?

X3M wrote:
Ship
- Name
- Cost
- Armor
- Movement Speed

X3M wrote:
Shield Generator
- Name
- Cost
- Shield
"Does not work during travel"

X3M wrote:
Shield
- Name
- Cost = (Total Movement Speed + 2) x #
- Shield

X3M wrote:
Weapon System
- Name
- Cost
- Damage per Projectile
- Projectile Multiplier per turn #/#/#
- Accuracy (not mentioned means 6, # for all or per turn #/#/#)
- Attack Range

X3M wrote:
Warp Technology
- Name
- Cost = Ship Cost
- Movement Speed = Movement Speed Ship x 2 + 2

X3M wrote:
Long Distance Targetting Technology
- Name
- Cost = Weapon System Cost
- Attack Range = Weapon System Attack Range x 2 + 2

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Mon, 02/03/2025 - 15:21
#63
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Certainly I should limit a design

To 2 cards to begin with.
A player can research having more cards in a design.
A player can research a design itself.
The 1st research cost for a ship is 2 x the cost of that ship.
2nd, 5 x
3rd, 10 x
4th, 20 x
5th, 50 x
6th, 100 x etc.

As for researching allowing more cards per design.
3 cards, 20
4 cards, 50
5 cards, 100
6 cards, 200

Not sure about this yet. I need to design cards first. That would be my next objective. Until next time!!

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Tue, 02/04/2025 - 02:36
#64
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Propulsion systems?

Instead of the weird movement speed upgrades.
I could stack propulsion systems.

Although, I feel that I would be giving away a bit too much?

What do you thing about this?

X3M wrote:
Ship
- Name
- 50% Cost Armor
- Armor

X3M wrote:
Propulsion System
- Name
- Cost = Movement Speed x 50% Cost Armor
- Movement Speed

X3M wrote:
Shield
- Name
- 50% Cost Armor
- Shield

X3M wrote:
Shield Generator
- Name
- Cost
- Shield
"Only active when still"

X3M wrote:
Weapon
- Name
- 50% Cost Weapon
- Damage
- Projectile Multiplier #/#/#
- Accuracy (if required) # or #/#/#

X3M wrote:
Weapon Launch System
- Name
- Cost = Attack Range x 50% Cost Weapon
- Attack Range

A shield is not nessesary.
A ship is a station when there is no propulsion system. It still can be launched.
A weapon is like a bomber. Works best in a gravity field (for free)
A launch system thus adds attack range.

Considering cutting a weapon into more pieces. Where the turn is a factor.

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Tue, 02/04/2025 - 03:24
#65
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Lasers...?

Perhaps I should add weapon systems that already have an attack range. An energy beam can be a weapon.

But the launch systems is often dedicated to certain weapons.

A laser is a concentrated energy beam.
A cannon shell is never launched with a rocket or missile.

So, when I apply naming. I should be vague. And a launch system should be appliable to any weapon.

Another thing I can do is that a launch system prepares the projectile to be stronger. Or weaker.
Giving projectiles a turn number instead of salvo.

And that one mechanic can return in the weapon launch systems.
Where turn 1 weights 3, turn 2 weights 2 and turn 3 weights 1.
Thus from turn 1 to 2, will change 2 into 3 projectiles.
From 3 to 1, would change 3 into 1.

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Tue, 02/04/2025 - 17:44
#66
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Perhaps this?

X3M wrote:
Weapon System
- Name
- Cost
- Damage
- Multiplier #/#/#
- Accuracy (if required) # or #/#/#
- Attack Range

A weapon system could include things like lasers and railguns etc.

X3M wrote:
Projectiles
- Name
- Basic Cost
- 50% Cost Weapon
- Damage
- Projectile Multiplier #/#/#
- Accuracy (if required) # or #/#/#
- Basic Attack Range

Projectiles could be cannon shells, grenades, rockets, missiles or other explosives, plasma balls etc.
The basic cost is 2x 50%, plus the attack range cost.
The ships and certain shields would get a basic cost as well.
Then I am back to the 50% cost being linked to the movement speed and attack range upgrades. So, I am going in circle's here. So, basic cost would be just Cost. Then for the upgrade, we have an upgrade cost.

X3M wrote:
Projectile Launcher
- Name
- Cost = Attack Range x Upgrade Cost Weapon
- Attack Range

I don't have much fantasy here yet. But things like Magnetic Launcher, Electro Magnetic Launcher, Torpedo Tube etc. Are perhaps possibilities. I need to think carefully.

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Tue, 02/11/2025 - 16:14
#67
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I kept cutting

It has been a week.

It is down now to the following 5 types:
- (min 1, max 1) Ship/Station
- (min 0, max 2) Shield (Generator)
- (min 0, max 3) Propulsion System
- (min 0, max 3) Weapon System
- (min 0, max 3) Weapon Range Upgrade

X3M wrote:
Ship/Station
- Name
- 50% Cost Armor
- Armor
"Minimal cost is 2x 50% Cost Armor"

X3M wrote:
Shield
- Name
- 50% Cost Shield
- Shield
"Minimal cost is 2x 50% Cost Shield"

X3M wrote:
Shield Generator
- Name
- Cost
- Shield
"Deactivated during movement"

X3M wrote:
Propulsion System
- Name
- Cost = Movement Speed x 50% Cost Armor and Shield
- Movement Speed
"Propulsion Systems can stack"

X3M wrote:
Weapon System
- Name
- Cost
- Upgrade Cost
- Damage
- Projectile Multiplier #/#/#
- Accuracy (if required) # or #/#/#
- Attack Range

X3M wrote:
Weapon Range Upgrade
- Name
- Cost = Extra Attack Range x Upgrade Cost
- Extra Attack Range
"Weapon Range Upgrade can stack"
"Weapon Range Upgrade can only be applied to 1 Weapon System"

The technology level starts with allowing at most 3 cards per design. The player can upgrade this too.
It allows for having Ships with 1 Propulsion System and 1 Weapon System.
As for Stations, these can have a combination of up to 2 Shields (Generators) and/or 2 Weapon Systems and or 1 Weapon Range Upgrade.
It is kinda neat that there are several different Stations possible right from the start. Thus the beginning has an emphasis on defences.

Long range defence?
Station + Weapon System + Weapon Range Upgrade.
Wall?
Station + 2 Shields (Generators).
All rounder defence?
Station + 1 Shield (Generator) + Weapon System.
Deadly Wall?
Station + 2 Weapon Systems.

As for launching Stations. The Shipyard will have a launch system (upgradable too). And the Propulsion System simply doesn't count here.

Besides of fleets. We now use defence slots as well.
The player starts with 3 here as well. It is upgradable.
Well, a fleet can contain Ships and Stations. But cannot move without breaking into 2 separate slots.

The player will once more get another emphasis on defences here. Since a small planet has 6 regions around it. Which require at least an attack range of 2 for being able to defend the planet.

Event Cards are going to get Events in a sense of pirates, aliens, trade opportunities etc. But also subgoals that reward a player.

Resources need to be gathered. Different resources converge to one valuta for the payment of Ships/Stations and Upgrades and Research. The trading will take place on the different resources. Some factions have different value's to the same resource. This in order to have aliances being build up.

The goal will not being killing each other this time. It is an option. But I am going to try something new. I will ponder on this.

1 stack of cards to rule them all !!

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Wed, 02/12/2025 - 11:37
#68
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Why only 1 upgrade? And some other notices

So far 1 true upgrade card
It turns out that the weapon system is too complicated to have multiple upgrades work properly. I have to build on a minimalistic design. And everytime I started creeping, thus changing the bare minimum. I should NOT do that.

As for the ships
Having propulsions systems is actually a good replacement for 1 propulsion system and an upgrade to it.
Having multiple propulsion systems simply stack works so much better.

As for picking the wrong cards
Players are allowed to trade or sell technologies.

As for base defences
I allow the players to land on the planets as well. And stations can be placed on the planets too. This means they are even more at a disadvantage due to gravity and their attack range. The solution required some math and testing.

The results?
I treat projectiles the same as how ships can move around.
When changing a gravity level, it costs 1. While ships have a cost of 1 in both directions "up" and "down".
Projectiles have 2 different costs.
"up" costs attack range. Thus from 1 to 0. Costs 1, and you already need 1. Thus a minimum of 2 is required here.
This grows linear. A change of 5 for example, needs a minimal attack range of 5. This due to the fact that all gravity wells work linear in the game.
"down" boosts attack range. Thus from 1 to 2. Gives 1, and you can actually gain attack range, even when starting at an attack range of 0. The requirement however is being in a gravity well. But here is the fun part. From 1 to 1, also gives 1. Your bombers can make use of the gravity of a planet and start gaining attack range in several directions. It is kinda neat how this works. And you should draw it out for yourself.
The downside of shooting "down" or sideways. Is that every boost gives a penalty of 5/6th accuracy.

If you know me, you know that I got this list:
1 boost = 5/6
2 boosts = 4/6
4 boosts = 3/6
6 boosts = 2/6
10 boosts = 1/6

Astroids have a weight of 1. They do not reach out into space with a gravity well. Firing from here costs 1 attack range. Firing into multiple astroids does give a 1 time boost with penalty. Astroids also give another penalty to projectiles flying into or through. So, stationing a fleet here will protect the fleet at a simple cost of 1 attack range.

I also got 3 different planets. On which a player can place defences.

The smallest planet/moon with a weight of 2. Is slightly at a disadvantage with defences. Still, it can be used strategically when flanking a fleet in orbit.

The medium planet has a weight of 3. Building defences here with sufficient attack range. Are usefull against bombers. A player will only use bombers though, since they are still the cheapest ships for reaching other worlds.

The largest planet has a weight of 4. Building defences is a must. But the attack range needs to be ridiculous. These defences will consume the most attack range upgrades.

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Wed, 02/12/2025 - 23:33
#69
X3M
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Is there still something possible?

I have 5 different cards. Of which the shield has 2 variations in terms of usage.

I am going to look carefully at the list now. In order to see if there is anything else possible.

And my main focus is on the effects of gravity.

***

We have this:

X3M wrote:
Propulsion System
- Name
- Cost = Movement Speed x 50% Cost Armor and Shield
- Movement Speed
"Propulsion Systems can stack"

We could add this now:

X3M wrote:
Anti Gravity System
- Name
- Cost = 1/2 x Anti Gravity x 50% Cost Armor and Shield
- Anti Gravity
"Anti Gravity Systems can stack"

How should it work (first assumption)?
Each Anti Gravity will reduce said effects on movement.
Where normal movement is reduced by 1 for each gravity change of 1 ("up" and "down").
Anti gravity will nullify this effect.
Anti gravity will come in batches of 2 due to the cost calculations. I want 0.5 to be the minimum. Where 0.25 is too small of a detail.

When going through several gravity changes. Like for example an astroid belt. The gravity goes up and down all the time. Each hexagon might be a change. Assuming this is the case. We can now compare the effects in terms of costs.

AGS=2 + PS=1 equals PS=2
0 gravity change, 1 versus 2
1 gravity change, 1 versus 1
2 gravity change, 1 versus 0
---> A steeper gravity change can prove to be worthwhile for this mechanic.

AGS=4 + PS=1 equals PS=3
0 gravity change, 1 versus 3
1 gravity change, 1 versus 2 or 0 at distance 2
2 gravity change, 1 versus 1
3 gravity change, 1 versus 0
4 gravity change, 1 versus 0
---> A bigger effect to have AGS here.

It feels satisfying now.
I need more research

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Thu, 02/13/2025 - 00:29
#70
X3M
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Anti gravity...

"Can only be applied together with a propulsion system."

Same goes for the same effect on the projectiles.
However, I don't think I should have this upgrade for the weapons.

So, what other upgrades could be added?
Seeing as how a ship is allowed to have up to 3 weapon systems. Which can be 3 different weapon systems. What if a rapid fire is added?.

This rapid fire triples the weapon system. But costs a weapon slot. And it can say "tripple the number of projectiles, and any cost"

If a weapon system has 3 range upgrades. And 2 of these triple cards. The cost is the weapon plus 3 times a range upgrade. Then the result is multiplied by 3. And once more by 3.
If a weapon system costs 4, and a range upgrade costs 4. Apply this 3 times, the total cost is 16. Then mulitply it by 3 and again by 3. The total weapon system now costs 144.

Well, that is one heck of a support unit. But the weapon side costs 6 slots. And it still needs a ship with propulsion. It would certainly be a late tier.
Still, having 3 weapon systems with just 2 cards is a good choice. And 9 weapon systems with just 3 cards is also a must.

x3m wrote:
Weapon System Multiplier
- Name
- Multiply the Weapon System cost, including other upgrades, by #
- Multiply the number of projectiles by #
- The Weapon System gains an extra accuracy roll of #

Here are some idea's:
Cost MP - Projectile MP - Accuracy Layer
3 - 3 - 6 (accuracy layer not used)
2 - 3 - 4 (silly design)
2 - 4 - 3 (same silly concept)
But... having 2 of factor 2 is a factor 4....with 3 cards.
4 - 4 - 6 (accuracy layer not used)
5 - 6 - 5
4 - 6 - 4
3 - 4 - m3^2 (roll to mis instead, twice. 25% mis is a 75% hit)
3 - 5 - 3 on 4 (and 6 on 1, (4/2=2)+1=3)
4 - 5 - 3 on 2 (and 6 on 3, (2/2=1)+3=4)

Well, plenty of options here.

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Thu, 02/13/2025 - 00:43
#71
X3M
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Weapon range upgrade

Could also receive a multiplier. Since I allow no more than 3 of these.
I could call it an Attack Range Module.
Factor 2 is silly, but once more, 2 of them create 4.
The cost of a weapon range upgrade is multiplied by the factors. And so is the upgrade cost.

***

The following needs to be tweaked.

The following around ship/station designs are factors. Factors that can be upgraded:
- Number of card slots per design. Research costs increases exponential. 1, 2, 4, 8 etc. 9th is 256.
- Number of card slots in total. Research costs increases cumulative. 1, 3, 6, 10 etc. 9th is 45. 15th is 120. 24th is 300.
- Number of designs. Research costs increases exponential. 1, 3, 9, 27 etc. 9th is 7561.
- Each design costs the design x 3 x design number. 9th is design cost x 27.

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Fri, 02/14/2025 - 16:17
#72
X3M
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9 Ships/Stations

The 50% costs are:
0.5
0.75
1
1.5
2
3
4
6
8

As for the 0.5 and 0.75 costs.... I am thinking of having a second resource being in the playfield for these.
Steel and Quartz.
As the latter being a quarter in value and an ore.

So, 0.75 Steel equals 3 Quartz. And perhaps I should put all costs in both terms or just Quartz. With Steel perhaps being an alternative way of paying, if allowed.

What is your view on it?

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Sun, 02/16/2025 - 21:54
#73
X3M
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Steel and Quartz? Just steal steel.

Well, it seems to be best to have Steel only. And have quarter portions of steel, on the resource list as well.

1 to 3 quarters on the top row. Representing 0.25 to 0.75 steel.
1st column; 1 to 9 steel
2nd column; 10 to 90 steel
3rd column; 100 to 900 steel

The sheet would be a 3x10 in terms of resources.

The quarters will only used when odd number of propulsion is added to the second ship of 0.75.

0 sp results in 1.5
1 sp results in 2.25
3 sp results in 3.75
5 sp results in 5.25
etc.

I could multiply all costs by 4.
And my goal is to have ground forces too. Or combatants that can board a ship through launch pods. An extra mechanic on top if you will.
These forces would cost 0.25.

Personally, I don't care.
Looking at the possible target audience. Numbers could grow big.

***

The most expensive body card would be that of 8.
Having this one and 2 shields of similar size would be 24.
That is the 50% cost. So a Station is 48. But lets say a propulsion system enough to get to 9 would simply mean 264.
Add a similar costing weapon system with upgrades and what nots. And we get to 528. This is a cost that could occur with the quarter system. Now, if the cost is multiplied by 4. We are at 2112 here. This ship will probably never been build. But if we would allow it. The resource mat would need at least a 4th column.

The home planet is going to have some familiar structures too. But some of them should start at a cost of 0.25.

Iron Ore Mine; a higher level would produce more resources per turn. Exponential in costs, cumulative in effects? If the resource is not used and/or stored. It is lost for that turn.

Not sure if I should insert a smelter. Perhaps as a secondairy process, in order to factor the effect of an iron ore mine. Exponential in costs, linear in effects. Which are a factor on the iron ore mine. In a sense, level 1 is required for a factor 1 on the iron ore mine. The production would be 0.25 here. Level 2 on both would result in 2x0.75=1.5. Level 3 on both results in 3x1.5=4.5. 4; x2.5=10. 5; x3.25=16.25. 6; x5.25=31.5 etc. I will give the players a table. And am unsure yet about the numbers and their growth. Probably an exponential growth on the mine is better.

The fact that upgrading takes rounds is a reason for a colony not being that usefull right away.

Storage; a higher level allows to store more resources. Cumulative in costs, cumulative in effects?

Shipyard; launches stations and ships into space. Each level increases the launching range by 1. Meaning you need a higher level on heavier planets. Costs are exponential. Effects cumulative on production.

Research Centre; a higher level would allow more resources being used for research of design slots, slots per design, implementing a design, and more.

Barracks; ground forces in order to prevent stealing. You also need ground forces in order to steal. A higher level would allow more units to train. Probably linear in effect, cumulative in costs.

Factory; ground forces of a higher tier.

Construction yard; allows for upgrading other buildings. It can upgrade itself too. The levels of other buildings cannot exceed the level of a construction yard. Costs cumulative, effect linear I guess. Besides of upgrading buildings, it can also produce defence structures. These are "stations" that aren't launched into space. Effect is thus cumulative on production.

I should work on the cards first. And see what is needed for the homeworlds.

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Mon, 02/17/2025 - 08:15
#74
X3M
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8 buildings?

But I should focus on converging too. 8 is just too much already. My main concern is with the Barracks and Factory. Ground forces. Would they be able to move around on a bigger planet? If so, they would be able in space. We can have space marines for that, but then again... Movement should be limited to 1 spot. They cannot be launched into space. They cannot escape gravity either. So, an astroid field. They would be more of use there.

But besides of space marines...What would a factory be able to produce? I can only think of Mechs that can go through astroids as well. But tanks are a whole different matter. It makes no sense to have tanks in an astroid field. There is only one more solution to this. 2 different tiers. Space and "ground only" types.

If space is treated as 100%.
Then ground only, which is normally the 100% as default, should be less. Then what is space compared to ground only?
For starters, the map layout will be a lot of space. Stars too, are not ground, but they are not space either.

So, a 50% cost on the body to begin with. Then, if a weapon cannot fire into space, this would be 50% as well.

I could allow players to build tanks that can fire into space. Their bodies would be cheap. But this would over complicate the game? Idk. At first I thought I started designing at the basics, the ships. And buildings, while prior, designed last. But having ground forces...Maybe I should cut away the whole idea. And having only space marines. Since ships can be stations and can be ON the planet as well. And that is all we want.

So, some questions need answers:
Only (space) marines (cost 0.25) or tanks and/or mechs as well?
A design mechanic for these as well?
1 weapon system for the (space)marines.
2 for the tanks and mechs.
A cheaper body/weapon cost for these as well?
Like not just the body, but the weapon costs cut in half as well since they are sitting ducks.

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Sat, 02/22/2025 - 21:13
#75
X3M
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Back to shields

Names.... what would be a good theme for shields?

I got 2 types. The ones that simply copy the main bodies. And those that are active once the ship is only in combat.

So.... 2x 9 names are needed.

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