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Making Risk-esque turns faster

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ruy343
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Joined: 07/03/2013

Hey all,

I'm on my 7th or 8th board game design now (I've been at continuously designing random board games for 4 months now) and I've settled on a strategy game where players duke it out to control star systems. Some neat mechanics include jump lanes between systems, starbases that shut down phase lane travel between systems, the ability to target whatever ships you want in combat (As opposed to Twilight Imperium when an opponent has a horde of fighters they can just slaughter meaninglessly while your more valuable ships take the hit on your side, or Axis & Allies where you just butcher infantry), and the ability to construct semi-unique capital ships. I think I have the victory conditions all worked out, but I just have one problem...

How to I keep turns from becoming forever long?

When I play Risk or any similar strategy game, players often take a ridiculously long time because they're overwhelmed with their choices and their choices' impact. Sadly, my game might present a few more choices and points for attachment which would mean that they would likely sit and ponder a lot more. Combat is pretty simple, so people won't be stuck on whether they'd win or not, but they would be trying to perfect their strategy... What are some ways that you've encountered that fix this?

Ideas I've thought of:
1. Simultaneous moves: Everyone takes one move or build action from point A to point B together so not too much happens at once. I might say that you get to do three such moves in a group "turn" before you can move (or construct and use) something a second time. It might work. Has anyone else seen a system like this?
2. Turns are shortened into mini-turns based on numbers of actions allocated previously. Similar to above, but your ability to move would be limited by your choice to buy stuff instead.
3. Everyone gets a freakishly long turn and we all grin and bear it

Have any of you found a turn system that works better?

Corsaire
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Joined: 06/27/2013
How disappointed am I? I

How disappointed am I? I thought the title said risque.

rene.shible
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Ahhhh Corsaire! I think I

Ahhhh Corsaire! I think I startled some of the people on the bus with my laughing.

I think that if you really need to keep all of those choices available all of the time, AND you want to keep the turns light, you could give each player only a single action per turn. This could keep the game moving at a brisk pace without forcing players to wait too long before making a decision. This could also help mitigate some of the 'analysis paralysis' inherent to larger games by giving players sufficient time to decide upon their next single action as their opponents play out their turns.

~R

Toa Lewa
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Joined: 10/31/2013
Participating in phases at the same time

ruy wrote:
Everyone gets a freakishly long turn and we all grin and bear it
I love Axis and Allies, but I think that this is the weakest part of the game.

How about something like this. Break each turn up into phases. For example: build, move, attack, collect income, etc. Instead of a player going through each of these phases alone, everyone goes through the phases together. So each player participates during the build phase. One player builds a unit, then the next player builds a unit, and everyone takes a turn and it goes around until no one wants to build anymore or everyone runs out of money. Likewise, during the attack phase, player 1 attacks first with one unit/squad/fleet, player 2 attacks with one, and it goes on and on around the table until no one can attack anymore.

s24shane
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Joined: 01/30/2014
Limited Options Per Turn

I was thinking of similar mechanics for my game. I am notorious among my friends for analyzing every possible aspect of a game for several future turns and slowing the pace down (in Risk and Talisman in particular). However as a designer, I like the idea of limiting the number of actions a person can take per turn to make shorter, more frequent turns, like option #2 in the original post. Maybe you attack OR buy things, and can't take 2 attack turns in a row or something.

Toa Lewa
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Stagnant Pieces

s24shane wrote:
Maybe you attack OR buy things, and can't take 2 attack turns in a row or something.

That idea is simple and probably is fast, but there is a reason I didn't use a mechanic like this in one of my games. The problem is if you are only moving one or two units per turn, you are probably moving the really good pieces or are forced into moving specific pieces, and you might have a massive army sitting on the edge of the board that isn't doing anything. The reason that I like having a phase where everyone takes turns performing actions, is that players get to contribute to the game in a fast manner and all pieces can be moved.

Corsaire
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Joined: 06/27/2013
OK, now that I have more time

OK, now that I have more time and read it properly. One of My favorite solution in space battles is what Starfleet Battles does, where everyone is writing turn orders and they initiate on the same schedule. Works out pretty cool.

Though what I see is in many game sessions are that players self-moderate the pace. And players allow non-interferng simultaneous actions.

For option 1 you could use initiatives and every ship takes an action in initiative order?

If you call them fleets rather than ships, then losing a move for buyng would make sense. But at a ship level, I think it would feel artificial unless a ship defaults to mantaining heading.

And don't forgot while player B moves layer A can strategize which can distribute the tun load out. Doesn't play so well in Risk becuase of the boom-bust tendencies.

Corsaire
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Double post

Oops

HPS74
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Joined: 01/06/2009
Why even worry about it?

Are you planing to publish your game? Self publish or find a publisher?

I made a variant on RISK (pretty sure the post is on here somewhere) that made the game massive.....zepplins, ships and naval attacks, canons, generals and loads of other stuff that made turns even longer, similar to your problem. But you know what....that's what made the game fun. So many options, so much strategy that your opponent eventually misses something and opens the door for your to attack.

I say let it go.....get some beers, put on some tunes, leave the game set up if it isn't finsihed and come back to it next session.........unless you want a publisher to make it that is!

ruy343
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Joined: 07/03/2013
Tonight I playtest

Ok, well I've decided on a turn structure with the following configuration:

-There is a marker given to player one that has a 1, 2, and a 3 printed on it. these numbers represent rounds. They cover up the numbers as turns are taken by everyone in the circle.
-You can move any number of ships to a given sector if they have sufficient move ability for one move
-Ships are not allowed to move again until the end of a round.
-When a round ends, the player who was keeping track of rounds then passes the counter to the next player, and they take the first turn. This means that players won't maintain their initiative advantage.
-Some abilities are only playable if a ship starts the round in a given place (constructors can only build if they didn't move that turn; they have to have been there until the start of a round).

This means that you can choose to play late to maybe get a turn right before another player. Resources are generated on a round-to-round basis, so buying points are created at round's end when all players observe how they're doing, and the ownership of various sectors.

Thought you'd all like to know. I'll let you know how the playtest goes :)

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