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POLL: LEGACY mechanic

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Fri, 10/02/2015 - 20:39
questccg
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This is a simple POLL. But before I go into that, let me explain the LEGACY mechanic. The LEGACY mechanic is a way of marking a game (or cards) such that they play differently that the original game. This may involve adding stickers, marking a board and even writing on cards.

So now for the POLL.

Which option do you prefer?

A> Plastic cards (cost $0.30)

However you need special Non-permanent markers (Staedtler Lumocolor). They require a damp cloth to remove writing and were popular with Overhead Projection. You don't need to buy anything EVER. Except expansion sets if you want more/other cards.

B> Paper cards (cost $0.09) with Plastic sleeves ($0.01)

You get 12 cards to the base set. You must use a Sharpie (Permanent marker) to write on the plastic. You will need to buy only new Plastic sleeves.

C> Paper cards ($0.09) only

You get multiples of each but you write directly on the cards themselves (markings are permanent). When starting a new game, you need fresh paper cards. You can probably use a normal Gel Pen but you will need to buy more cards.

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Sat, 10/03/2015 - 06:29
#1
X3M
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What about post-its ? You can

What about post-its ?
You can get them every where.
No need to buy expensive pens. The simple ones will do the job.
So I would choose option A. Just for having good fancy cards.

Option B sounds like a good starting prototype to me. Still using post-its.

Option C is a big NO.

I do have some damp clothing since I do the exact same thing with my board game. But it isn't durable proof. So the only pieces that I write on are blanks to begin with. (And slowly they turn grey). After about 30 games, they need replacement. But that is al right since my pieces are about 0,01 each.

Have you tested the plastic material that "whoever" is offering to you?
You might want to try that out first. Chances are high that you will be disappointed in the material.

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Sat, 10/03/2015 - 07:46
#2
andymakespasta
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In the game Legends of the

In the game Legends of the three kingdoms (most known for being sued by Bang!), they kept releasing expansions over the years, and soon managed to use up all the characters in the source material (Romance of the Three Kingdoms), so they started releasing "shiny" versions of some of the more popular characters.

For card games, I think it's common to just print another version of the card, and tell people you can only use one version of the same card.

If you're trying to get people more willing to buy a card because it can function as two different cards depending on the situation, I think you're missing the point of CCGs. The cards are more liable to be overcrowded with information, which subtracts from the beauty of the overall design and attraction.

Probably I understood your question wrongly, but this is what I think.

Back to the POLL, I personally have sleeves on all my games, so Sleeves is probably a good choice.

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Sat, 10/03/2015 - 20:09
#3
questccg
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My version of a CCG = more like an LCG

andymakespasta wrote:
If you're trying to get people more willing to buy a card because it can function as two different cards depending on the situation, I think you're missing the point of CCGs. The cards are more liable to be overcrowded with information, which subtracts from the beauty of the overall design and attraction.

Some cards a UNIQUE and therefore can only be present 1 time in a deck. But I have created small (if you can call it that) expansions for the game. So the idea is this: offer the basic game so that a minimum of backers are needed.

All the artwork will be DONE and paid in advance by me. And that represents X unique pieces of artwork. This way my Kickstarter goal is relatively low.

Then with extra backers you can get extra cards (more than double) at no extra cost to the backers... It's just more people to the party = lower the earnings of the game vs. volume.

andymakespasta wrote:
Back to the POLL, I personally have sleeves on all my games, so Sleeves is probably a good choice.

Thanks for your feedback.

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Sat, 10/03/2015 - 22:42
#4
kos
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Option A or B

Of the 3 options, I'd be satisfied with either Option A or B on the provisos below.

Option A would have to have the special marker included.
Option B would have to have the sleeves and sharpie included.
I wouldn't buy a game with Option C.

On another thread X3M suggested stickers on cards. I just tested TGC stickers on TGC cards, and it works well. The stickers stay on well yet are still easy to remove with a fingernail. Removal can sometimes damage the stickers slightly with the corner of your nail.

Stickers could be used in one of two ways:
1) Blank stickers for people to write on with pen. The used sticker is then disposable, but people can easily buy more from a newsagent.
2) Printed stickers containing various modifiers (+2 strength, etc). This way no pens are required, which IMO is a bit more professional than writing with pen. The downside (or upside, depending on how you look at it) is that people would have to buy new sticker sets from you when they ran out.

Regards,
kos

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Sun, 10/04/2015 - 22:26
#5
questccg
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Writing on an opponent's cards is FUN! :P

Well the truth of the matter is that when you MARK and opponent's card, you can't help but feel *satisfaction*! But I agree stickers could be pretty cool also. Like "+1", "+2", "+3" and "+4" and their opposite "-1", "-2", "-3" and "-4"...

But there is something to be said about writing a BIG "X" to say that this card has been killed (for example). Or to write two pluses ("++") to indicate that this unit has a bonus. And like negating one of those and marking it off...

I think IF I was interesting in HOW the marketing of the game was - I would probably lend towards the MARKER because it's cool writing on the cards themselves and that's why I am leaning towards Option A. Like kos said, the marker would come with the game. I am trying to get a wholesale deal on the pens...

The other problem is that The Game Crafter (TGC) doesn't have 0.5" circular stickers. It's one of the SITE IDEAS that has not been implemented - YET.

Another issue is that stickers could "ruin" the cards themselves IF you don't use plastic sleeves. The ink might be prone to getting used if you stick/remove (over time).

At least I am still *excited* about this game. As with "Tradewars - Homeworld" - but I am waiting to see if a local game store accepts my asking to playtest... We shall see.

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Mon, 10/05/2015 - 07:09
#6
pelle
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Definitely B, as a player.

Definitely B, as a player. That way you can always reset the game if you want to, and you will always be able to find new sleeves from some supplier even if the game is no longer supported. I don't really see any disadvantages. With the right sleeve it will probably work with stickers or even non-permanent markers too.

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Mon, 10/05/2015 - 12:09
#7
DifferentName
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Lega-C

The only option you listed that I would count as a legacy mechanic is C. Permanently changing the game, making it unique through your own markings, is what makes it a legacy game. Pandemic Legacy is shipping to me now, and I can't wait to get stickers and permanent markings all over that thing :D

Of course, you don't have to make the changes permanent, just because that's what Rob Daviau defined with his legacy mechanic. If the changes in your game work better for a small campaign that would be restarted and played again several times, maybe the plastic cards would be better.

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Mon, 10/05/2015 - 14:26
#8
questccg
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Leg-A-see?! :P

DifferentName wrote:
The only option you listed that I would count as a legacy mechanic is C.

Agreed - unofficially.

DifferentName wrote:
Of course, you don't have to make the changes permanent, just because that's what Rob Daviau defined with his legacy mechanic. If the changes in your game work better for a small campaign that would be restarted and played again several times, maybe the plastic cards would be better.

More like as you play more "games", your cards get more markings (IF you play this way). I tend to lean towards - well if you're going to markup cards - why should it be permanently?

Talking about the game and saying well your first match uses Deck A and your second match uses Deck B. But your third match could use ENHANCED/AUGMENTED cards from both A and B... See what I am getting at with the strategy. It's like a whole NEW level because YOU decide which cards to play with, which cards you give bonuses to, etc.

Maybe it's not PURE legacy - to only mark the cards for a series of games. But it's the next best thing IMHO.

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Wed, 10/07/2015 - 20:30
#9
questccg
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Actually thinking about STICKERS

I think that using *specialized* stickers would be the BEST way to go. I'm not happy with the non-permanent pens, even if they are FINE (0.4mm) which is pretty darn good, they just don't FEEL right.

Now going back to STICKERS, those would be AWESOME since if the cards are made of PLASTIC (Option A), you could ADD/REMOVE stickers as needed. No need for a FANCY pen, just a page of stickers you could get with the game...

Of course LEGACY, by definition, would mean sticking them to PAPER cards. But I think PLASTIC cards have that extra factor! They are smooth enough to shuffle and stickers are more easily removed.

And it's not like it is a BIG deck: only 12 cards. If they are 0.5"x0.5" round stickers well you can stick several of these on a card. And they could be standardize like:

  • +1 (Any stat)
  • +2
  • +3
  • Dead
  • etc.

As an example... TBD!

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