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Please Help Categorize My Game - Book of Villainy

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Thu, 08/02/2018 - 14:46
Fertessa
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I wasn't sure where to post this, but since I would have a link to my rulebook, I put it in the Proofreading forum.

I am on the 10th prototype for my game, Book of Villainy, but when someone asks me what mechanics I have, I struggle. I only got into the hobby one year ago, when I started working on my game. I've learned alot and played alot over this past year, but I still struggle to assign mechanics or categories to my game. For sure, I'd say Take-that and maaaaybe set-collection, but other than that I'm not sure.

I'd be really grateful if anyone would look over my rules/gameplay and tell me what mechanics would be good to highlight. And if you have any feedback regarding the rules, I would be extremely happy for those notes as well. Thank you!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16MBr8o9YpLjhnibVK6Xc9_JkMvWlxrWbUulf...

And on a side note, I forgot to make a new copy of my rules and wrote over my rules for my ver 9 prototype, which is why it says 9 and not 10. I'm wary that some inconsistencies may be there due to missing an old rule.

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Thu, 08/02/2018 - 15:24
#1
let-off studios
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Game Mechanics List

Have a look here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgamemechanic

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Thu, 08/02/2018 - 16:26
#2
Jay103
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I didn't read the whole

I didn't read the whole thing, but having a whole page of silly ways to choose who goes first? (All of which involve some sort of vote..?)

If the game ends when all the Evil Deeds are collected, and there are 31 Evil Deeds... I see no plausible way for this to finish in 30 minutes. It's gotta be 5 minutes just to get all the cards laid out and the decks shuffled.

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Thu, 08/02/2018 - 16:28
#3
Fertessa
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Thank you! I actually read

Thank you! I actually read through that list a few months ago, and Take That was the only thing that seemed to fit. Possibly Hand Management might work, but that might be a stretch. That's why I like to ask others, because I feel like I might be misunderstanding what counts under certain mechanics. I think I mistakenly said Set Collection in my first post, when Hand Management night be better. But again, I'm not sure.

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Thu, 08/02/2018 - 16:55
#4
Jay103
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A few other comments..You

A few other comments..

You can move to any unoccupied tile of your choice on your turn? Why would anyone go to the Mom's House?

There's a lot of mindspace taken up by SuperFleek, but he doesn't actually seem to have much impact.

Ah hah! Waaaaaay down at the bottom it finally says how much you can move on a turn. That should be waaaaay at the top.

The Movement section also implies that you can Duel twice in a turn, but I don't see that elsewhere.

There's a card location where you draw a weapon and a shield token, which otherwise don't seem to exist in the game.

As a general comment, the game seems simultaneously pretty simple and then weirdly complex, so I really can't imagine how a game would go. Like there's some sort of attack/defense mechanic with the minions, but also there's a high-level trap thing, plus Superfleek and his pizza..

I'm curious how this looks when playtested. I'd think there are a few basic strategies to use, but maybe one is much easier than others. For example, buff your minion and just duel everyone until you win, ignoring the missions and the 'fleek and all that.

As far as the *theme* goes, I assume all the villainy is in what the cards say. That needs to be pretty villainous.

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Thu, 08/02/2018 - 19:17
#5
Fertessa
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Thank you Jay! Looks like we

Thank you Jay! Looks like we posted around the same time, so I didn't see your first post.

Yes, with 4 players, the game would end in 30 minutes. I had that result at least 6 to 8 times, so it's a solid number. That being said, with the addition of my last two playtests went longer than usual, but we were also in a gaming restaurant, so it was hard to accurately time.

People are collecting 31 Evil Deeds, yes, but not one at a time. Depending on what they do, they collect 2 and 3 deeds at a time.

I did not include set up in the play time though. That would maybe add 5 to 10 minutes.

Thank you for catching those discrepancies! I removed the old rules, changed the placement of the movement details, and simplified the first player pick. The player pick was a residual of a mechanic I had in earlier versions of the game which I was slowly phasing out. I had lingering attachment and thought it was a fun way to open the game, but it never gets used in playtesting, so I'll keep it simple.

As for playtesting, I've been told that when explaining my game it seems like alot to take in, but once you start playing it's actually pretty simple and easy to get after a round or two. So there's probably an elegance issue in my design, and I'm just trying to suss it out to be more intuitive via playtesting.

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Fri, 08/03/2018 - 11:58
#6
Jay103
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Fertessa wrote:The player

Fertessa wrote:
The player pick was a residual of a mechanic I had in earlier versions of the game which I was slowly phasing out. I had lingering attachment and thought it was a fun way to open the game, but it never gets used in playtesting, so I'll keep it simple.

Basically, none of it had anything to do with the game, or even really your theme, so if someone wanted to choose who goes first by a weird way, they can just do that on their own.

Quote:
As for playtesting, I've been told that when explaining my game it seems like alot to take in, but once you start playing it's actually pretty simple and easy to get after a round or two. So there's probably an elegance issue in my design, and I'm just trying to suss it out to be more intuitive via playtesting.

I wasn't really concerned that it was too complex to play.. it's like 10x more simple than some of the stuff on here :) (and in stores). I was more noting that it was kind of spread out. Like, you're some sort of big-time villain (or at least plan to be one soon), but a big chunk of your points (and gameplay) involves luring a neighborhood bully with pizza, so he'll bump into your opponents? I'd think you'd lose all your rep points just from talking to that guy.

Edit: Just made a point in the current playtesting thread that applies to my point here.. What is the game about? You have inventions, so these guys are some sort of super-villains / mad scientists I assume, yet there's this pizza thing, and hitting an opponent with the bully is worth more points than killing the opponent yourself?? Is this the pizza game or a villain game?

Now, if you really love the pizza mechanic but aren't TOO attached to the named bully, figure out how to have the same thing but within your theme. Replace bully with rogue killer robot who you lure around the board. Then at least it's on theme.

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Fri, 08/03/2018 - 11:31
#7
let-off studios
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To your original question, I took a look at your rules and the list I suggested in an earlier post. Here's what I think your game looks like, while not having played it:

  • Modular Board (randomly-placed tiles)
  • Action Point Allowance System (three per turn from a host of options)
  • Grid Movement (orthagonal)
  • Variable Player Powers (something about "the Unhinged" being different is mentioned, and I assume each Villain card and likely Minion does something different as well)
  • Take That (lots of back-and-forth, including the SUPERFLEEK feature)
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Sat, 08/04/2018 - 08:22
#8
Fertessa
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Jay103 wrote:Fertessa

Jay103 wrote:
Fertessa wrote:
The player pick was a residual of a mechanic I had in earlier versions of the game which I was slowly phasing out. I had lingering attachment and thought it was a fun way to open the game, but it never gets used in playtesting, so I'll keep it simple.

Basically, none of it had anything to do with the game, or even really your theme, so if someone wanted to choose who goes first by a weird way, they can just do that on their own.

Quote:
As for playtesting, I've been told that when explaining my game it seems like alot to take in, but once you start playing it's actually pretty simple and easy to get after a round or two. So there's probably an elegance issue in my design, and I'm just trying to suss it out to be more intuitive via playtesting.

I wasn't really concerned that it was too complex to play.. it's like 10x more simple than some of the stuff on here :) (and in stores). I was more noting that it was kind of spread out. Like, you're some sort of big-time villain (or at least plan to be one soon), but a big chunk of your points (and gameplay) involves luring a neighborhood bully with pizza, so he'll bump into your opponents? I'd think you'd lose all your rep points just from talking to that guy.

Edit: Just made a point in the current playtesting thread that applies to my point here.. What is the game about? You have inventions, so these guys are some sort of super-villains / mad scientists I assume, yet there's this pizza thing, and hitting an opponent with the bully is worth more points than killing the opponent yourself?? Is this the pizza game or a villain game?

Now, if you really love the pizza mechanic but aren't TOO attached to the named bully, figure out how to have the same thing but within your theme. Replace bully with rogue killer robot who you lure around the board. Then at least it's on theme.

The Challenges do tie into the theme of my game. The theme isn't just villains. These are up and coming villains who are kind of bad at their job. The game is more humorous than serious, so the silly challenges fit the tone.

The game is about proving you're the best villain through manipulation or sabotage. The pizza mechanic is there because the bully has the power to fly 2 feet off the ground, purely through the power of flatulence, resulting from his neverending diet of pizza.

It was never a pizza game, however, I do focus too much on SuperFleek. I'll refine his existence over the next two months. I may change him into a playable villain and remove him from the board. We'll see. But this game is heavily humorous, so serious things like a killer robot wouldn't be in theme.

For example, the inventions are : Always Watching, Never Sleeping Robot, The Moderately Invisible Cloak, Healthy Espresso Shot, etc.

An example of an Evil Deed card would read : Go to the concert of the hottest boyband and sneak backstage before the show. Find the member with the longest hair and whisper, your hair isn't long enough to cover your mistakes, then walk off.

Ally/companion cards would have names like Dubious Dolphin, Savage Swine, Devious Duck, etc.

These are cartooned villains, who don't die. They have duels which let you claim tiles, but there is no health to damage, nor a way to die. The one thing I'm confidant about in my game is theme, as it is the one thing every playtester has listed as their favorite. It's just, as you said, getting mechanics which match up with the game.

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Sat, 08/04/2018 - 08:25
#9
Fertessa
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let-off studios wrote:To your

let-off studios wrote:
To your original question, I took a look at your rules and the list I suggested in an earlier post. Here's what I think your game looks like, while not having played it:

  • Modular Board (randomly-placed tiles)
  • Action Point Allowance System (three per turn from a host of options)
  • Grid Movement (orthagonal)
  • Variable Player Powers (something about "the Unhinged" being different is mentioned, and I assume each Villain card and likely Minion does something different as well)
  • Take That (lots of back-and-forth, including the SUPERFLEEK feature)

Thank you so much! When I looked at Variable Player powers, I thought the usage had to be more extreme, as they had in their example. Yes, each villain in my game has a different power. The Minions all have the same ability though. I really appreciate your help on this!

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Sun, 08/05/2018 - 08:28
#10
Jay103
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Quote:Always Watching, Never

Quote:
Always Watching, Never Sleeping Robot

Did you name it "Alexa"?

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Sun, 08/05/2018 - 14:27
#11
Fertessa
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Jay103 wrote:Quote:Always

Jay103 wrote:
Quote:
Always Watching, Never Sleeping Robot

Did you name it "Alexa"?

LOL might as well have

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Sun, 08/05/2018 - 17:05
#12
Jay103
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Quote:It was never a pizza

Quote:
It was never a pizza game, however, I do focus too much on SuperFleek. I'll refine his existence over the next two months. I may change him into a playable villain and remove him from the board. We'll see. But this game is heavily humorous, so serious things like a killer robot wouldn't be in theme.

Sounds good. It really did seem like SuperFleek was the central mechanic of the game, but at the same time I didn't think that was really what you were trying to focus on.

(by "central" I mean there are a lot of rules devoted specifically to him, and hitting someone with him is worth more points than other things, including direct victories)

Are the Evil Deed cards just flavor text? I mean, you do action X, get 2 Evil Deed cards, and they're just Victory Points in card form? Or are they then usable as well?

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Mon, 08/06/2018 - 06:58
#13
Fertessa
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Jay103 wrote:Quote:It was

Jay103 wrote:
Quote:
It was never a pizza game, however, I do focus too much on SuperFleek. I'll refine his existence over the next two months. I may change him into a playable villain and remove him from the board. We'll see. But this game is heavily humorous, so serious things like a killer robot wouldn't be in theme.

Sounds good. It really did seem like SuperFleek was the central mechanic of the game, but at the same time I didn't think that was really what you were trying to focus on.

(by "central" I mean there are a lot of rules devoted specifically to him, and hitting someone with him is worth more points than other things, including direct victories)

Are the Evil Deed cards just flavor text? I mean, you do action X, get 2 Evil Deed cards, and they're just Victory Points in card form? Or are they then usable as well?

Yeah I get what you mean. Once everything is balanced, I'll seriously have to consider his role in the game, and whether or not cutting him will improve gameflow or if I'm just not implementing him correctly, and there's a mechanic he's better suited for.

Also, yes the Evil Deeds are just flavor text/VP cards. I've alternated between usable and non usable, and so far people haven't wanted to use them. They just enjoy reading them. Theme-wise, they're "pages" in your Book of Villainy that you're writing.

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