Has anyone used AdMagic for bulk card game manufactoring?

If you "re-think" your Go-To-Market strategy and FOCUS on DIRECT SALES, TGC is the better choice. What do I mean by "Direct Sales"? I mean selling ONLINE via a Website, some kind of Portal or even Amazon are all viable options. As long as it is DIRECT TO CONSUMER.

At $16 USD to make with a bulk of 100 units, if you DIRECT SELL you can price your game somewhere between $20 and $25 USD and BE HAPPY (+Shipping). That's pretty decent... And you'll be pleased that you've only got 100 units to move ONLINE.

I too struggle with TGC because I can't get products into stores (FLGSs) because the COSTS are too high for proper pricing through distribution. My Booster Packs cost me $4.17 USD and I would like to retail at around $6.99 USD. There is NO ROOM for stores or middlemen (like a Distributor).

And that's the caveat of TGC: can't go into traditional distribution and retail.

Here's another IDEA: Use TGC to fulfill your orders for KS to speed things up and not worry about Freight.

With the EXTRA monies, try to get stores to pre-order copies of the game. I've got a spreadsheet with ~150 stores in the USA (FLGSs).

Now with COVID-19, I don't know how many are still in business... TBH!

But if your game is a smaller format (Tuck Box) ... I'm sure you could CONVINCE stores to buy 5 copies each... And maybe sell to 20 stores (maybe this is a ballpark figure). That means 100 units and maybe in 6 months re-orders if the game sells. 250 units is the best possible order for stores, because it covers a re-order and maybe more stores buying into the game too (50 extra units).

Just sharing with you some extra thoughts! Cheers.

Well 50% markup for retails would mean $32 USD... And then there would be $0.00 for you. That's the problem, $16 USD for Direct Sales is OKAY. And you would get 100% (instead of 70/30 break from TGC) because you could include your order from a bulk order (of 100+ units already).

Meaning that FOB (Freight-On-Board) is that the manufacturer will deliver the games to the PORT of export and then you need to make your own arrangements from the PORT to the destination (somewhere in the USA).

Well paying for fulfillment like "Fulfillrite" (https://fulfillrite.com) or "QuarterMaster Logistics" (https://www.qmlogistics.com) will give you the option of having a "warehouse" plus ship direct from your warehouse to customers.

I generally don't want to PAY for "warehousing" so some of my smaller projects, I prefer fulfilling myself.

Never aim to "break-even". Always TRY to be in the Black (if possible). If it's costing you $16 USD + Shipping... You should be selling at $20+ and Shipping paid by the customer. Think of it this way: one day you will have a project that you want NOT to KS. And to do this you will have 2 options: get a loan OR bankroll it from monies earned from previous projects.

While loans can be a way out... Building a nest-egg from a project that you decide NOT to KS ... Is something great for the growth of your business.

Limiting Liability is important. But also not paying taxes on KS earning in the event that it takes LONGER than a year is your second reason for incorporating. KS Sales in the Year they are obtained become LIABILITIES and NOT SALES. They only CONVERT in the Year you FULFILL them. So if you sell in Q4 of 2021... And Q1 of 2022 is a new FISCAL YEAR... Well in Personal Taxes you will need to declare the revenue as INCOME and get taxed on it. NOT GOOD. If you had a business, you could simply WAIT until the Year all those liabilities convert and then they become SALES.

That's something VERY important. Also EXPENSES, like paying for prototypes and paying for a domain, etc. I would ALSO "strongly" recommend to get a Business Credit Card so you can PAY for ALL-THINGS your business and properly DEDUCT expenses from profit. This too will lower the amount of Taxes you stand to pay because they affect the bottom line.

I had a nest-egg and I'm kicking myself in the arse because now that I've blown my nest-egg I'm waiting for monies to come in... To TRY to get that Credit Card to pay for stationary, office supplies, mail, etc. All that gets subtracted from the bottom line and LOWERS your taxes to be paid since it affect the amount of PROFIT too.

I'm not telling you to go for un-legitimate expenses like meals and entertainment of customer... I'm just saying that from experience there are a bunch of things that TODAY I pay "out-of-pocket" because I don't have that Business Credit Card.

Just some things to think about ... And BTW Jay103 hasn't been around much since he moved and started his NEW job. Evansmind also hasn't been around and considering this is soon to be his HIGH-SEASON, we may yet hear from him soon... TBH. I know Jason is still selling his game ONLINE and I don't know what Evans has been up to lately...

1 out of 3 ain't bad! (Wink)!

OTX Logistics USA seems to be very popular:

https://www.otxlogistics.com/usa-en/home.html

They can arrange sea freight from China to the USA. But know that NOW because of the Global Pandemic, shipping is 3x the usual price. That's what I have heard... I got some quotes that were like $230 USD for TWO (2) Cartons... And I think this is expensive too...

It is what it is... There are other Freight Forwarders around too... I don't have much EXPERIENCE in this department... I'm trying to get around to having Chinese imports and understanding the nature of the beast that is importing from China.

Best!

Hi Genepool,
take everything I say with a pinch of salt.

I think you may have made some mistakes in how you handled your KS, it would have been wiser to get quotes earlier and define your pledge levels/minimum goal based on those (and including in those all the extra costs, such as shipping from China, VAT registration and anything else you may need).

In any case, now it's late for this, so you should decide how to move forward.
As I see it, you could:
Spend as little as you can, produce the MOQ, ship it and keep the rest of the money (if any) for you.
You would have 100 copy to sell to retail if MOQ is 250.
In theory you use the 5x multiplier from landed cost to get to a retail cost, but that does not come from magic, it's there so that you can afford reprints while selling to a distributor. In your case you don't need a reprint and if you do you, can run another KS when this is needed.

So, even if you end up spending 10 USD to make and ship a copy of the game, since you have 100 free copies that your KS is paying for, you can still sell them for 25 through your website or on fb or whatever. Even if you don't sell all of them, anything that comes out of it is pure gain. If you want to sell more you can still sell to a distributor and lower your margins. Those margins in the 5x multiplier are there to allow you reprinting basically, in real life any money which is more than what you spent is good, especially considering you didn't account for all of this when designing your KS.

I am not saying this is ideal, but producing more than you need now, so that you can lower the price per copy, seems a dangerous stretch. ​

On your question, I don't know admagic but received quotes from Gameland and they seem very professional despite the low cost and were recommended by professionals with experience too. I think TGC is good for prototypes but not for mass manufacturing (and I think aside from cost their quality is also that of a prototype, cut lines are often on the edge of tolerance). Going for whatever is overall cheaper may be the best option no matter what.

Hope any of this helps!
Antonio

Because to your own SHOCK ... The cost of producing GOODS in China may be LESS expensive than the cost of SHIPPING the goods. Don't be surprised. I have family that worked in the clothing industry of a warehouse as the lead shipper... And he confirmed with me... In many instances the costs to ship goods are equal and in some cases HIGHER than the value of goods...

What matters is volume, order size and margins.

So if you order a MOQ you offer free shipping. Like 1,000 units gets free shipping directly to their warehouse... Things like this that make sense. But not for one-off sales. In one-off shipping must always be paid by the consumer.

Just a bit of background to fill-in the gaps concerning shipping... Cheers!

Note #1: So if it costs $10 USD to make, the shipping can cost $15 USD to ship to the consumer + Freight another $4 USD... We're talking about ~$20 USD to SHIP and HALF (~$10 USD) to make it (whatever it may be... a game for example).

So you can see HOW "expensive" shipping really is. And that's a major issue that drives up the RETAIL price point ... because it's not just $10 USD to make... It's ~$30 USD to make and ship.

Again just trying to share some research that I've done and experience with some of the campaigns that I've worked on.

Note #2: TGC has better shipping prices in the USA. What I mean is that it is LESS expensive to ship from TGC to the consumer than it would be from a warehouse. TGC has very competitive pricing when it comes to shipping (again in the USA). So using TGC you may get a better price-point than using USPS and other shipping companies.

Note #3: The one thing that I worry about when dealing with Traditional Distribution and FLGSs ... Is WHO pays the shipping??? I mean for the Distributors, they can order a MOQ of 1,000 units. I guess on that type of order, the publisher swallows the cost of shipping the order to their warehouse. But again that eats into your OWN margins.

Stores typically from what I've seen don't PAY shipping. This is a good thing to remember... They TOO have a MOQ with Distribution and can buy a minimum dollar ($$$) quantity to get FREE shipping. They just don't DROP-SHIP a game and the store sells it. It's all about the MOQ in terms of dollars that needs the sale to be ... So that the STORE can qualify for FREE shipping...

That much I know. What the exact NUMBERS look like... That IDK! Again this is not from real experience... It's more from conversations, chats and researching ... To see HOW it work.

I know some website support DROP-SHIPPING meaning you order from a online store, then the order is sent to the manufacturer and they direct-ship the order to the customer... But this is NOT in the Board Game Industry. It was in the Car Parts Aftermarket... Car accessories to bling your car out with all kinds of accessories like lights, neons, spoilers, etc. Not the traditional parts like Brakes, Oil and Wipers... The fancy extra stuff...

And usually the parts are rather EXPENSIVE to start with. We're talking about a MINIMUM of ~$100 USD per order. So I guess with better margins and higher costs, that industry can AFFORD to DROP-SHIP.

Anyhow this is neither here-nor-there... I'm just relaying you some info... And you can discuss with whomever has a clue in this business...

Note #4: I've also seen Catalog Ordering for Franchise stores in the Aftermarket Car Industry. So the Distributor would put out a Catalog each year and the franchises would SELL from the Catalog and the orders can be gotten in a matter of a Day or two. Again IDK in these cases WHO was paying for shipping from the Distributor to the store... Because it was all consumer-based orders. Maybe the shipping is factored into the pricing (could be possible) in any event stores only bought from ONE (1) Distributor and they (the stores) would retail and INSTALL the parts.

So the stores were servicing their customers too. So, they probably make LESS on the PARTS and charge like 100% servicing for installation... And they had annual franchise fees which could be like a percentage of their yearly income (IDK again not sure about how franchising was done...)

Clearly these businesses had the advantage that you REQUIRED an installer to put the parts onto your vehicle. So the franchises would make monies on the installation.

Anyways that's another market and you can see that there are multiple sources of revenue which could explain how these businesses operate and survive...

Note #5: In the Aftermarket Car Parts, like NAPA ... They can place an order for a part from the warehouse and get it in a matter of a couple of hours. IDK who pays the driver salaries... But they do have people who go to the warehouse and pickup the parts and drop them off at a retail outlet.

I think the Distributor in #4 also had their own drivers too. I'm not sure what are the the time delays... Like a day or so versus traditional parts that can take a half-day or so.

Again I know about the Car Accessory industry because A> Family used to be in the business and B> I deal with NAPA outlets to buy wipers, car filters and stuff. Same goes with a Car battery that took at most 30 minutes to deliver it and get it installed in my vehicle. It was FAST. Again the mechanic was making monies on the installation and replacement of my old battery...

Again the storeowner is running a "Business". And so whatever he/she has in inventory they SELL. Obviously things with a RETAIL Markup of MORE than 50% is products that stores will promote first. Most products (think games) are at the 50% retail markup.

Some are at 40%... Maybe the smaller games like LCG packs and such. Could allow for tighter margins.

But the "Bottom Line" is if the storeowner sees things this way, he/she will do very little to put the spotlight on a product which is on consignment.

That's something for you to do too... It'll make you seem MORE PROFFESIONAL is to DISCUSS the spot for YOUR product. Talk to the manager or owner and ASK them where do they see your product IN THEIR store. Is it AT THE VERY BACK of the store with some of the less popular titles or is it IN THEIR display casing where they feature Magic, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! cards (probably not since your game is not a CCG/TCG) and that spot is reserved for those type of card games...

Here's something you can TRY. DO ON-CONSIGNMENT but NEGOTIATE FIRST that your product will be in the display counter right next to the cash register... Never tried this kind of negotiation. You can do it since it's no skin off their back (on-consignment) and in a featured location (prime for impulse buys). That could maybe be some kind of "compromise".

Better location and no commitment to buy up-front.

Again I'm not a snake-oil salesman ... But talking with the manager even an employee to get a feel what you can work out. Like take for example the DISPLAY CASE at the cash register. If you ask an EMPLOYEE they may say they're not sure. That gives you a reason to speak to the MANAGER. So it's a way to increase your "presence" in-store and feel-out someone with a higher ranking in terms of business dealings...

Or if you ask an EMPLOYEE and he responds something like: "The display case is only for Magic, Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh! cards"... Then you can say nicely: "Hmm... Would it be possible to discuss this with the store manager???" I'm very poor in SALES. You've got to be very quick to size up situation and the level of interest with the parties you get to speak with.

USUALLY on-consignment is VERY BAD. I can tell you HORROR stories... Like COSTCO ordered a ton of HIGH QUALITY and PRICY women's wear and hardly sold any stock. They returned the merchandise in the boxes they had received the goods in... Let me tell you it was a real SHIT SHOW! And this is for a HIGH END clothing that COSTCO was getting for great prices that just didn't sell. Again ON-CONSIGNMENT.

Again a friendly warning... It may work for you. Just saying I've both personally and have second-hand experiences and none have been good (when it comes to selling on-consignment).

I don't know of any Taxes except for Shipping Insurance... But that would probably get lumped into "Shipping"... Which would make it closer to $8 USD the amount that "projected" when talking about sales and on-consignment.

Either way it seems like some losses from that pricing and the $10 USD Reward Level that you had offered. Like you said, you wanted to ENCOURAGE backers to support. And while that is completely a good IDEA, it comes at a loss (in terms of revenue).

I wouldn't be surprised if many KS campaigns go that way.

People expect you to GIVE things away. Now with the costs of container shipping going 3x to 4x ($5,000 USD to $20,000 USD) ... The price of everything is going UP! Plus there are going to be HUGE delays from ships in ports that need to be unloaded too! Not a great time to be making things happen...

But I know how you FEEL. Sorry to hear that you will be OUT-OF-POCKET.

As a FIRST campaign you'd want to make some monies... It depends on what you DO NEXT...! Is this the end of the Design-Bug... Or are you now that much more interested in offering an "Expansion" to your game...???

Adding some NEW cards to spice-up the game a bit... IDK. I haven't looked at your game in detail. But most games can be "expanded" upon! Maybe a Booster Pack to encourage people to BUY with a NEW set of cards... Could be profitable and "FUN" too! (lol)

If you want to CONTINUE... Don't give up! Cheers.

I think TGC is your better DEAL. You produce 200 units. Ship 84 HOME and TRY to sell via your FLGS (Friendly Local Game Store) and you can set-up some online sales via Amazon or your own website.

Why I say this?!

Try to KEEP it as simple as possible. Don't go into over $1,000+ USD in a loss with a bunch of additional fees like storage and warehousing fees which will eat up any chance of breaking even. Sure I know you've got like $5,000 USD in terms of potential inventory and profit... But it's a LOSS ATM.

If you only lose $200 USD with TGC and can SELL 84 x $25 USD given the COST and such you make $800 USD with little hassle. Okay maybe you need to pay some Amazon fees or setup a website or make a deal with a local store...

TBH you will get economies of scale on the SHIPPING to your home for those 84 units. So it will be LESS than $5.00+ USD per unit (on the average).

Bottom line: through TGC and buying 84 extra units... Puts you about $500 USD AHEAD (in the Black)! Work it out... You'll see that I'm in the right figures with some extra inventory.

Do some more math and get back to us... If you can make like $500 USD selling via a website... I would go that route. Amazon has high fees especially around Christmas. You could TRY to sell in January via Amazon and save some extra fees too... 84 units is not the end of the world to sell online.

Cheers and do let us know what you decide to do in the end...

If you sell to a FLGS, just pop SOME of the units into the car and drive to the FLGS... Unless they are not in proximity of your home. I just thought the FLGS you were talking with was in your neighborhood!? I think per store based on your box format, they could handle like 6 games each store...

For online sales, yeah you can use ULINE.COM to order supplies such as 100 bubble wrap envelopes: S-9985 = Self Seal Bubble Mailers 6" x 10". 250 Quantity for $42. Which equals $0.50 USD an envelope ($42 / 84 = $0.50).

So it's $0.50 for the envelope, and then S-21845 = Labels. 1800 for $31. Which equals $0.37 ($31 / 84 = $0.37)... But you have PLENTY left over for address printing. So it's more like ($31 / 1800 = $0.02 each)...

However you require a Home Printer (Laser or Inkjet) for label printing.

You can also get "return address" labels too... S-16989 = 10,000 for $31.

Buy stuff you can re-use for later orders too... If you sell all your 84 units via a FLGS or online (website or Amazon).

IDK if you can BUY from ULINE.COM because in Canada they ONLY sell to "businesses" not consumers. Otherwise you need to go to Staples and the pricing is much more EXPENSIVE.

There's another advantage of owning and dealing with a business. Plus you can deduct all these purchases from the bottom line as expenses (COST of doing business).

I personally THINK that USPS will be less expensive than UPS, Fedex, and DHL. But it's up to you to do some of the leg-work if you expect to sell or send parcels to Amazon.com (for example).

It's not a 5-second affair. It takes proper planning and figuring out how much inventory you want to send to Amazon.com, how much to sell to the FLGS in your area and then keep the remainder for re-orders (from the FLGS) or see if you can sell via a website too...

Would be nice if Jason (@jay103) would be around since he has done all of this with "Heroes & Treasure". He has sold via Amazon.com, he sells online and he sells to stores (via a channel partner website).

Maybe send him a PM: In search put in jay103 and from any of his comments you can see "SEND PM"... Maybe get some advice from the Horse's Mouth!

Best!

Hmm... Would you believe it that Facebook is CHARGING "Taxes" on Ads!!! OMG this is INSANE... Lucky that I own a company and that I have GST + PST numbers which Facebook validated and gave me Tax-Free Ads... But as an INDIVIDUAL ... I would normally be FORCED to pay consumer taxes.

Insane... But TRUE!!! What is the world coming to when you have to PAY TAXES on Ads which are virtual clicks and views...???

Unbelievable.