What artists would you recommend?

To find artists... They often have Comic-Book-esque artists that would fit your theme. ATM I cannot recommend anyone ... But you could use Fiverr for some of your art. I've used it for two (2) Creative Writers (the second one being MUCH better than the first) and one artist (who drew Manga-style art).

As a Graphics Designer, I can offer you "Jason Greeno" who is one of the partners in "PNP Arcade" (https://www.pnparcade.com). I'll send you his e-mail via a PM. Jason might be a bit pricey ... But he does good work and you don't need to hassle him to do REDOs... He usually understands what Game Designers want as he too has designed several Board Games too. Usually with Jason, it all get settled in one delivery.

CAD = 3D Modeler and often they use Blender to produce industry standard STL files. CAD may be the OLD way of doing it. A newer software like Blender is more popular ATM.

For Meeples, "Meeple Source" is a good resource (https://www.meeplesource.com). They have a bunch of various meeples... The website is having difficulties ATM ... I don't know why?! But usually it's super-fast to browse.

Here's a quick-link to their Ninja (one of two models):

https://meeplesource.com/proddetail.php?prod=Ninja20-

I'd recommend googling for more Meeples and other sources... They may not have what you need. There is also this site: https://meeplestudio.com

Buy I don't think you can do one-off production or if the color your meeples as sophisticated as the Ninja (from Meeple Source). Google a bit and see what you can find.

That's the best I can do... Maybe someone else has ADVICE. Cheers.

I have not used it myself, but I think there are some websites like Fiverr where you can hire artist for cheap. Their portfolio is on their website.

For Graphic design, it depends what you need, but sometimes you can buy for example card templates already made. I think there was an ad here on BGDF that sold some of them.

Nobody on Fiverr is "ignorant". They all know how much it costs to make art. Although you CAN save some monies dealing with people in Asia, they still charge more than you would imagine. Like $8.00 USD is a black & white sketch. If you want it colored +$xx.00 USD dollars. If you want a Background +$yy.00 USD dollars. The Fiverr platform charges FEES for using their website plus they FORCE you to TIP the designer and charge an ADDITIONAL FEE on top of that.

So "hire artists for cheap" is 1980s. We're in 2024 and no art is cheap unless you use AI (Computer Generated Art).

Yes Nun Kwon from Manifestation CCS (https://www.manifestationccs.com) does predefined ICONs and Card Templates... Plus he does CUSTOM as needed. Check him out too (if you are looking for icons or card templates).

Forgot about Manifestation... And they advertise on BGDF.com too! Hehehe.

So Fiver does not implies it's 5$ per art?

The Moral of the story: do your own art, make pixel art, or just don`t use any art.

By the way, I am trying to see if I can make 2 hits with one stone. By doing pixel art, but applying a filter for scaling it up for board games. So far, the results are below average, and the filters to use changes for every piece of art.

I managed to do the opposite, use some inkscape basic shapes and filters, then scale it down as pixel art. The results were acceptable as pixel art.

The Archon design requires MAP art... And I figure that I'm going to do that ART myself and save from $100 to $500 CAD in costs when it comes to doing what I want to be illustrated.

Basically I've decided that I'm going to draw it myself in PENCIL First and then use a permanent ultra-fine point Black Pen and trace over the art. There is NO worry about messing up... I will buy a canvas book and do the ART in there... I can get it scanned at my cousin's home when it is READY... And just RELAX and ENJOY the process of making the MAP art myself.

I'm not the greatest artist... But I have a couple SAMPLES to work with and I understand how I can perfect the art. TBH it should be rather DO-ABLE!

I'm not interested in dropping that much money for ART that I can do MYSELF and even if it takes TIME... Who cares... It's a PROCESS... Not a destination. I'm finding ways to ENJOY art and drawing not TRAVELLING to some kind of BEACH in the South! Hehehe.

You make a VERY good point! I agree with you on this one...

Best!

Note #1: I love those Technico Staedtler Mars Engineering Pencils... I find they do an amazing job when it comes to drawing. I've got two (2) of them... I will not doubt use ONE (1) of them and maybe buy a better eraser at the Artisan's Shop (Omer Des Serres)...

Maybe I'll go this week... Just to see what I can find.

Note #2: I feel like this is SOMETHING that I CAN accomplish and save myself the frustration of having to explain and then share my concept and then feel like the "artist" will "feel-me-out" to charge me more for what I need in terms of ART.

You're right... If I can TRY to do it... I should be able to do it with a PENCIL and then make it COOL looking.

Like you say: MAKE IT LARGE and SHRINK IT DOWN!

Should work for MAP art! Great idea!

Like for a Box Cover ... Easily $200 to $300 CAD. That's why I went the "I'll do the composition later myself ..." to save some money and just get a couple CHARACTER illustrations. Logos are about $250 to $300 CAD depending how complex the logo is and how many revisions are made.

Character Art is the cheapest as many illustrator DON'T make "Backgrounds". Backgrounds is what ups the price a lot. Having a simple Background (like I am currently doing with "Archon") can be like a two-tone background... Grey at the knees and White upwards to the Head and beyond. That could be FREE... But B&W sketches are like $5 to $10 CAD... That's how people get around "Fiverr".

But then when you add color, it's probably $10 to $15 CAD more... And you need to pay Fiverr a FEE or using the platform and you pay a processing fee too (using PayPal or Credit Card...)

All in all, you can probably get Character art for $35 to $50 CAD...

Pixel art IDK. I hate digital looking art. I like 3D looking or Manga or Comic-Book-esque (like AD&D illustrations). I don't like Pixel art TBH. It was good in it's day when the TVs were smaller and you had devices like the Nintendo DS Lite and DSi ... And because things are SMALL you notice the pixels LESS.

On actual projects that use LARGE Pixel art... That I HATE! Sorry not a fan of that kind of art.

But there are a lot of Manga Artist and I'm sure you could get Manga style art which may look MORE professional. Picture "AFK Journey" that's what I call Manga style art. There are a lot of Asian artists on Fiverr... They are happy to do traditional looking art for games.

Some other people are designing games with Pixel art too (I've seen on the TGC chat)... I'm not impressed with it either.

Tile Sets... Hmm... That is also very specialized. I would start by searching Deviant Art rather than Fiverr... That kind of specialized art is less common and you would need to see SAMPLE Work before buying.

And as far as a Single card is concerned. The art also requires nice Graphic Design Skills for the Template. As you know Nun Kwon who has an Ad on BGDF.com can definitely HELP in that department... It's just a matter of figuring out what you NEED.

And YEAH, I've paid $100 CAD per illustration per card. The funny thing is that the artist in question thinks it's not enough and now wants to charge me $350 to $500 CAD for the exact same art after we did it for about $100 CAD per piece. She is making crazy money on Patreon (like $75,000 CAD a year)... So she really can charge whatever she wants... She doesn't need the commissions.

Going down the "Do your art yourself"... I went to Omer Des Serres and spend $20 CAD on an Artbook (80 pages) and an Acrylic Pen (Black) for my maps. I'm still in the process of learning HOW(?) to draw the maps but I have a Hi-Res SAMPLE I can use to help guide me. I will do some more practice art ... And see what happens when I erase Pencil that is covered with Acrylic... Not sure... TBD.

This is going to be COOL. Because maps are very subjective: they can be HIGHLY detailed or they can be more like Medieval Maps... Which is like on white paper but you apply Parchment layer under the art... TBD. This is like another ADVENTURE (doing the Maps myself).

And TBH, don't try to negotiate too much... Because if an Artist is NOT happy with the price... Don't expect their best work. Sometimes it's worth it to pay an additional $20 CAD and get something more professional looking.

Like I said, I'd go Manga Style Art like "AFK Journey" and have some Asian Artist do the illustrations. I (personally) wouldn't want Pixel art. To me that kind of art was due to hardware limitations and the paper medium is now colored digitally (instead of acrylics or watercolors like before) and so there is virtually no way to make mistakes in your art.

Check-out Deviant Art and Fiverr and see what you can find!

Cheers @larienna!

Note #1: I searched for "texture tiles" on Deviant Art and found some good looking tiles... Like I said for Tiles ... That could be a source... And if you pay them ... More likely to do the art than not!

Here's a link: https://www.deviantart.com/search?q=texture+tiles

For card illustrations, Fiverr is the better choice IMHO.

This is yet another AI Generated ART with the simple layout for Micro Cards:

Again it's very simple ... But it goes well with the other cards in the collection. I've stuck with color-only backgrounds to ensure that there is about the same type of ART on each card.

The shades vary from one illustration to the other. But I think they work well.

We'll have to wait and see how this game Develops further. It could be "Low Hanging Fruit", IF I manage to perfect the MAP Art and see the results in final preview. I will complete this SET and then see what I can do.

I also need to work on my website (or in the current moment learning Bootstrap) because I need to advertise the various projects that I am and have worked on to show what I've been up to these 12 Years...

Maybe some people will be like: "It's best if people don't know." But at the same time, it's hard to explain yourself to someone if they can't go and see what it is you have done, are doing and could do in the future...

Anyhow... All things moving forwards gradually. I'm a bit slow. But this design got REAL HOT and since I had ideas that I did not have before... I decided to prioritize this CONCEPT with some time and see if I can get all of it done by Fall 2024 (start not the end)... So sometime in September.

I know that's far away. But I've got a lot on my plate ATM (as they say)...

Right, like I said:

- Backgrounds can be only combination of colors

- Coloring can be made simpler with reduced shading

- etc.

I looked, I could only find pre-defined maps. Not Map Kits (well I did find something which was a piece of cr@p...) It was GIFs and very minimal in content. I looked for Hi-Res Maps and they only showed a bunch of pre-defined maps for different types of games.

Maybe you can share a Link/URL???

Yes AI is helpful in generating CONCEPTS too. Natural language is probably the best since we would want to be verbose in our descriptions. And understanding of the AIs is also important (which I feel is like you explain a weakness...)

Yes it would be helpful if you could PROVIDE a sample image and say: "Make it into Pixel art but use this picture as the source of the future illustrations."

But we're not at that stage yet... Although I have seen that MidJourney can use other images ... It's just not all that effective as using other images.

As for me, well the AI generated stuff is OKAY. I could if I wanted to use it as INSPIRATION for making artwork. That is one possibility, the other is to simply use the AI generated art (it's pretty decent on its own...) We'll have to wait and see. The "Lowest Handing Fruit" is probably the things which are 100% completed (with art) and require no additional work to finish the product EXCEPT maybe a digital "rulebook" (I'm going digital because it is possible and it is less costly to produce and distribute).

This is a sort of PIVOT for me (digital content) because I don't want to PAY for a rulebook to be printed and I don't want rulebooks that require a LOT of ink to print (so environmentally-responsible). So none of this scrolls and banners, etc. Keeping it as simple as possible...

I just played around with some of the ONLINE FREE Pixelating tools and took some of the ART from "Archon" (ARCH) to see what it would look like in Pixel format.

Well as expected it looked like pure garbage.

So that's why I am strictly AGAINST Pixel art. It just doesn't look good on cards unless it is MAYBE "Professionally" done. From what I have seen ... It's got a lot of lack luster results when trying to pixelate an IMAGE into pixels.

It just looks TERRIBLE.

I'd rather have my Hi-Res pictures than scaled down Pixel art of the same image. They just look 100% better as Hi-Res renderings than lower res Pixel art.

If you stick to Pixel art, good luck, I wish you all the best ... But it's probably not something I will buy or play (TBH). Sorry I'm not for crappy looking art. And yes ART is SUBJECTIVE ... But there is a lot of paintings and other creative art I would support ... But not lousy Pixel art.

Again wishing you all the best with whatever Pixel art you plan on doing!

Note #1: As an FYI, here is the Link/URL I used for pixalation online which is FREE:

https://pinetools.com/pixelate-effect-image

Took an image and pixelated with a Block size of 12 pixels... Looks so BAD! It was a picture of a "Wizard" and it came out looking horrible.

Note #2: Unless you find an artist that can do pixel art like in "Chrono Trigger" ... Using actual images and pixelating them ... Will be a totally disastrous result (IMHO). I tried it and I did NOT like the results.

You may opt for another more accepting POV. I'm just being honest: I don't like Pixel art unless it's like drawn like "Chrono Trigger" or some other Japanese RPG...

Maybe if you SHARE some of YOUR Pixel art... Then maybe I can offer a neutral perspective. Based on MY OWN experimentation ... I did not like the results that I was seeing/getting.

But if you share with us something you've done ... Maybe that could be different... Who knows, you may be very talented at making Pixel art!

Note #3: I AGREE that SOME Pixel art is GOOD. But taking a Hi Res image and converting it to "pixels" is just not the way to do Pixel art. Like take the "Wizard" I was converting. He has a White Robe with a lot of pleats. This means in a pixel version, he would probably have long pixel strokes for the various pleats (for his robe only). But the Pixelation process does not understand that. It creates medium pixels which are colored to an approximation. And ergo the problem, YES you can have some AMAZING Pixel art. Just not by converting larger Hi Res images into "pixelated" versions...

Not quite. I mean hardly any background... These samples all contain NICE template Backgrounds. @Tobias knew what a template was supposed to look like!

Take a look at this card/illustration on this thread:

https://www.bgdf.com/forum/game-creation/publication/what-artists-would-...

You will see the Red Dragon looks nice and there is almost NO background to speak of... That's what I mean by "hardly any background..."

I will study this more. It's not what I want... But it does have the issue of CONNECTIVITY solved. So I will take a better look at that. Furthermore, I have concluded that I will DRAW the ELEMENTS first (1st) like ONE (1) Mountain and then digitally scan it, shrink it down and use it DIGITALLY to create my mountains. I may do a couple variations for the sake of NON-UNITY... And add a Snowy Peak or a Volcano, etc.

Thank you for sharing... That SAMPLE is much better than ANYTHING I could find with regards to that Template System. Kudos!

I just don't want to get TOO ARTISTIC. When you write 1 or 2 rulebooks, you start to lose inspiration about how to make more. So I'm thinking about using a standard Template in MS Word and just do the SAME kind of looking rulebook for each game...

I agree.

Show me some of your samples and I'll definitely take a look! Like I said you may be a better Pixel Artist than you know. It's like my Map art... If I can make the Basic Elements, I should be able to design the entire series of tiles.

Like I said in my tests, Pixel art looked terrible (Even going Hi Res to Pixel art...) But that's just my experience, you may be better at it (converting to and from Pixel art).

Last note I agree FROM Pixel art to something HI RES is hard but will probably just show the PIXELS (which are squares...) and the result is either AMAZING or TERRIBLE... Depending on your level of skill with that kind of ART.

Post some up (Pixel art images you created) and I'll let you know... That's really the best I can do. We've talked about, I tried and failed miserably and now if you want to demonstrate a sample of your own... Sure I'll have a look and give you an HONEST feedback.

Cheers!

If you want awesome maps, there is always the cartographers guild. Else one of my friend makes map professionally.

https://www.cartographersguild.com/content.php

Dextrous looks like the Magic The Gathering card editor for non magic cards. I imagine it's a kind of "software as service"? You pay to have access to the software.

I definitely have some ideas of blending traditional ART with digital ART and make for some cool MAP illustrations. I'm not 100% sure about everything in this "mini-project" but I will attempt to do it myself. Thanks for the suggestions, they are much appreciated ... But I feel like the best direction for THIS art is to do it myself.

I used to draw a lot and do oil painting too! I used to go to Art Classes every Saturday Morning from like 9:00 AM to 12:00 PM. There were levels and the instructor would help her students too. Some students were more advanced and some had taken the 5 year lessons and continued to produce art.

Bottom line, given that I am going to BLEND traditional art with digital ... I think I should be able to realize my MAP goals! But nevertheless thank you for the links and advice. I'm kinda yearning to do this project. We'll see how it turns out!

I don't want to use a service which forces me to keep paying to keep my content SAVED. And I certainly don't want a platform to disappear due to poor performance or the owners are not making enough money to justify the existence of said platform. All negatives. IDK if whatever they are doing could be a Windows Applications (Win 10+) with a license key... I guess it's harder to police and it's simpler to FORCE people to PAY the subscription fee ... Otherwise they lose access to their content.

And the last thing I want to mention is "Dropbox"!

If you don't know what I am talking about ... You might in the future. To explain... Is that you can SHARE a link from YOUR Dropbox to another collaborator. So say I have like 20 GB space (whatever it is now) and my friend shares me a link with 15 GB worth of FILES and DATA. What happens NEXT is TERRIBLE: I lose 15 GB of space and am left with 5 GB space just because SOMEONE SHARED their content with me!!!

OMG that is such a terrible business practice. I have since quit Dropbox and am now using Google Drive. Now it's like $25 per Month (Dropbox) with a trial for a certain amount of days. Fnck that sh!t... I'm never using Dropbox again for anything...

Terrible pricing ($25/mth) to host files and no longer any FREE options with LIMITED space. That's all been replaced with PAID Subscriptions!

Anyhow... Enough of my RANT ... One day you'll run into my issue and be like: "Oh... So that's what he meant!" Hehehe.

Best.

Note #1: And just as a point of reference... All you need is to have ONE (1) Game Design project with all the cards templates, the resulting cards (from 100+) and all kinds of digital assets and you SHARE this with one or two collaborators and YOU WILL SEE... Dropbox (arseholes) DEDUCT SHARED space from all links. So if you had like us (500+ Cards, Game Mats, Game Pads, rulebook designs, etc.) you'll see how much SPACE you use.

Then WHEN YOU SHARE IT with a COLLABORATOR... You'll see that THE COLLABORATOR will lose space matching the SHARED content. It's not bad enough that ONE (1) person pays for the space... EVERYONE you share it with ALSO pays in space.

Terrible, terrible practice to FORCE people to UPGRADE their account to a PAID account... But since Dropbox is no longer offering a FREE service ... WTF cares... Abusive practices just to force people to pay more for an account!

Is going to serve as INSPIRATION for the "Digital Assets" for the Map Making Art.

My plan is to figure out some Angles and make some illustrations in a Artbook. Next I plan to create Digital Reproductions that can be used in multiple settings to make the art look more refined.

It's something like:

The reason I am doing this is for a few of "technical" reasons.

#1: I can create the assets in AI and then copy & paste them into PS.

#2: This will simplify the use of WHITE Background versus an INVISIBLE Background in PS. If I would need to SCAN from the Artbook... The background would be WHITE and I would need to tweak each import to REMOVE the White Background... Not something that I want to do.

#3: Doing it all digitally can allow for some composition to happen more easily IN THE DIGITAL FILES. This makes it harder to achieve in PS with scans and simpler with AI (you can hide layers and copy & paste only the layers you WANT...)

That pretty much sums up my plans. I am also thinking about using ROUNDED edges to make the lines CLEANER and less DIGITAL looking. I'll post up some examples when I get to that point.

Cheers!