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I need suggestions for organising my videogame ideas.

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Sun, 09/04/2016 - 08:08
Willem Verheij
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I've been having a lot of ideas for videogames through the years and I tend to write them all down. It's a bit of a mess though and I am trying to streamline this and organise it properly.

An old friend has some contacts with some developers and publishers and is trying to help create an opportunity for me to present my ideas, so I want to prepare myself for that.

So I think I will need some sort of template that works for all game ideas, for the basic information. And then I could still put additional files in each game's map for more specific aspects of the game when going into more detail and where a single template won't work for all games.

Here are some things I plan to put on this template, which means I will have to redo all my ideas into this format:

-How does the gameplay work?
-What is the goal in the game?
-Why would people want this game?
-What makes it unique?
-What are the possibilities for sequels, DLC and such?
-Does it have multiplayer?

Maybe you have ideas for what more I can add to this list? Or maybe suggestions to phrase these things better or change the order of them to what works best when speaking about my ideas?

I figure this forum would be perfect for asking this since a template like this could actually work for boardgame ideas too, so might be helpfull for others to use as well.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

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Sun, 09/04/2016 - 17:06
#1
mcobb83
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This isn't real helpful, but

This isn't real helpful, but it might give you a paradigm shift in your organization.

I'm not someone who thrives on organization. I do better with organized chaos. I can't find things when they are put away.

I have 2 sets of game notes. One is on my phone, which is a summary of all the various board game (sorry, no video games here, but I think the principle applies) ideas that I have, with a second page on the phone for ideas I have whilst I'm away from my notebook. This tends to be more organized.

The other place I keep notes is m notebook. Each page has a single game on it. A game may span multiple pages, but no page is ever shared between games. If I go back and look through my notebook, I can see the progression of ideas as mechanics change to fit a revised and streamlined game. The downside to this organization - games are broken up. Game A might have a run of 3 pages, only to be interrupted by pages from games B, C, and D before game A comes back. The upside - I know that the page closest to the back is the most recent and those notes are typically enough to jog my memory. When it isn't, I have every page marked for which game it belongs to. So yeah, my note book is a mess. But its my mess, and I love it that way.

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Sun, 09/04/2016 - 17:42
#2
Tedthebug
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Think about time

How long will you get to present to the devs? If it is a half hour meeting & you have 5 ideas then that is 6-mins to pitch each idea (excluding time for introductions & wrapping up at the end).

Do them similar to a sell sheet.
* what's the elevator pitch?
* target demographic?
* target platform/s
* what makes it different?
* how will you monetise it? (Sell the game, F2P with ads (banner, interstacial, etc, frequency, time-gated or watch ads for extra lives etc)
* sample art to convey the conceived look
*. What games is it like? What makes it different to them?

Under that have more details about control schemes, background story, mechanic interactions etc (consider writing in pseudo code for some bits), mind maps/flow charges are also useful.

These are just off the top of my head. Good luck

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Sun, 09/04/2016 - 18:23
#3
Willem Verheij
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Well I have no idea, I

Well I have no idea, I imagine it will be either through mail or Skype since I live in the Netherlands and the companies he mentioned are not here.

Which ideas I will represent to them will depend on the one I get to talk with, I will pitch what would suit them best.

I've also written down some specific ideas for each that only they can do due to the licenses in their possesion.

I could add at the beginning a simple:

-What's it about?

This could allow for the short description of the genre and would pretty much be that elevator pitch.

Target demographic is not something that should be pushed hard I think unless its for kids. Since then you have to keep in mind what they can handle. But I think I can cover this in the "what's it about" section.

Platforms is something I can toss into the title or such possibly..

I gues the monetising would be part of the section regarding sequels and DLC. I wont pitch any free to play garbage anyways but I can make plenty of suggestions for DLC, pre order bonuses, potential for sequels and all that.

Sample art I cant do, I am not an artist.

I gues what games its like would be covered in the other topics like "what makes it unique" and I will be quite likely to draw comparisons to well known existing games to be able to quickly explain with few words how the game works.
And the topic of "what makes it unique?" covers what makes it different.

Good point about the background story, I will put that in too.

I cant write code or anything and control schemes I can give suggestions for if I have them, but typically that would be a later stage of game design than the initial pitch I suppose.
For pc I dont think any mention of controll schemes is needed, but for console games I could try it since buttons are more limited and it really needs to flow well.
PC controlls can be completely reassigned by choice anyways for pretty much all games.

Thanks for the suggestions.

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Sun, 09/04/2016 - 18:31
#4
X3M
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Excel, excels in this.

Uttermost left column, the title of the game.
Uttermost upper row, the questions answered.

Some games wont answer certain questions. But you can add more questions and simply try to answer them for each game that is in the table.

***

And the question, "does it has multiplayer?" Should remain a firm YES!!! these days. Change it instead into, "will single player be teaching new players to prepare for multiplayer?" or "is multiplayer different from single player in certain aspects?"

This question can be answered with a lot of consequences. Example:
Renegade has a single player mission that actually has almost notching to do with multiplayer. Sure you get to know the game play. But multiplayer will be very new to players here. The gameplay is frequently different.

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Sun, 09/04/2016 - 18:57
#5
Willem Verheij
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Personally I tend to have

Personally I tend to have little interest in multiplayer mode in videogames since it tends to be filled with overcompetitive assholes online.

I certainly have given multiplayer some thought for various of these games even though I'd personally be very unlikely to play it myself.
I do know how it works and what the possibilities are though.
For consoles I do like couch co-op since then you get to play games with your friends next to you.

And I will certainly strive to make multiplayer a friendly enviroment instead of promoting a toxic one.

Most of my suggestions will likely have a multiplayer option of sorts, though it would be a waste of resources for a game like Skyrim or such, where that time is better spend making that world more detailed and immersive.

And for strategy games and fighters, of which I have various ideas, it plays little different offline against the AI than online against other players anyways. Just needs proper balance for all fighters and factions but thats a matter of tweaking it during development.

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Sun, 09/04/2016 - 19:14
#6
X3M
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That´s a valid point about

That´s a valid point about over competitive ass holes.
However, is your game going to make the company,... money?

This is linked to the durability of the game. Multiplayer can go on for years to no end.

If you only have only single player and perhaps co-op. Then the game will have an "end" to it.
It has to have a GOOD end and a GOOD long trip.

Re-playability is important here. You might want to put that one in the list as well.

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Mon, 09/05/2016 - 02:46
#7
radioactivemouse
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I really wish...

I really wish that people understood what goes into making a video game.

I'm not trying to shoot you down, but you need to see some perspective.

1) The video game industry is filled with highly talented people that ALL want their ideas in a video game. The difference between them and you is that they put in the time, money, and effort to learn a skill that can be hired by a game company or have risen up the ranks from QA to have the privilege of implementing their own ideas. A game company that has 300 people has 300 people that have ideas themselves and are ahead of you in line for that company.

2) A video game that goes bad is not because it's the designer's fault. There's WAY more involved and most of it revolves around money. Some of it revolves around management, and some of it revolves around organization. If designers had their way, ALL games would go over-budget and release years late.

3) Ideas...are a dime a dozen. A great idea can be squelched by a bad investor and a dumb idea can make millions. It's the working of that idea that makes the idea profitable. The chances of a stranger's idea coming into a game company and investing hundreds or millions of dollars for that idea when the stranger is not proven is pretty silly, on any level.

So how do you implement YOUR ideas at a game company? Here's some thoughts:

1) Prove yourself. Learn a game engine, implement your idea. There's nothing that proves you're a game designer better than actually showing that you can do it in an existing engine. Unreal and Unity are both free, professional engines that you can play around with.

2) Study game design at a university. Going to a university will not only give you the contacts you need, it will give you skills that you can use in other fields.

3) Work for a game company, move up the ranks. Since you've mentioned you're in the Netherlands, you'll need to either find a company out there, or move to a place where a game company exists...and on top of that, has entry-level openings that has upward mobility.

I never trust companies that will take unproven developers that work remotely. It's a recipe for disaster. Think about it. You may see this connection as an opportunity, but do you think a game company will trust its money on a stranger's idea?

But if you are insistent on presenting your idea, you also have to note a few things:

1) What game engine they're using. Sorry to say, but all game engines have their limits. If you are working in Unreal, you may have an issue making an RPG as opposed to a basic shooter. Some companies have their own engine...that's another thing all together.

2) Your idea. If your idea sounds like another game, it will be most likely shot down. Companies aren't looking for same-old ideas, they are looking for your to know its engine and take it to the next level. There are design theories that exist that companies look for...balance, dynamic layouts, telling a story through the setting, stuff that they will test you on. The idea is not enough...see notes above.

3) You must adhere to THEIR style. You may have an idea, but it's how you fit to their company that will get you the job. A company won't just take an idea and bow down to everything you've setup because it's YOUR idea. Investors will always have the last say and the amount of "influence" they can have on a game company's direction is flat-out ridiculous. You may have an idea of a shooter, but an investor can change it to a racing game...it happens all the time.

I hope this helps. Sorry to be so...harsh.

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Mon, 09/05/2016 - 07:12
#8
Tedthebug
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This

radioactivemouse wrote:
I really wish that people understood what goes into making a video game.

I'm not trying to shoot you down, but you need to see some perspective.

1) The video game industry is filled with highly talented people that ALL want their ideas in a video game. The difference between them and you is that they put in the time, money, and effort to learn a skill that can be hired by a game company or have risen up the ranks from QA to have the privilege of implementing their own ideas. A game company that has 300 people has 300 people that have ideas themselves and are ahead of you in line for that company.

2) A video game that goes bad is not because it's the designer's fault. There's WAY more involved and most of it revolves around money. Some of it revolves around management, and some of it revolves around organization. If designers had their way, ALL games would go over-budget and release years late.

3) Ideas...are a dime a dozen. A great idea can be squelched by a bad investor and a dumb idea can make millions. It's the working of that idea that makes the idea profitable. The chances of a stranger's idea coming into a game company and investing hundreds or millions of dollars for that idea when the stranger is not proven is pretty silly, on any level.

So how do you implement YOUR ideas at a game company? Here's some thoughts:

1) Prove yourself. Learn a game engine, implement your idea. There's nothing that proves you're a game designer better than actually showing that you can do it in an existing engine. Unreal and Unity are both free, professional engines that you can play around with.

2) Study game design at a university. Going to a university will not only give you the contacts you need, it will give you skills that you can use in other fields.

3) Work for a game company, move up the ranks. Since you've mentioned you're in the Netherlands, you'll need to either find a company out there, or move to a place where a game company exists...and on top of that, has entry-level openings that has upward mobility.

I never trust companies that will take unproven developers that work remotely. It's a recipe for disaster. Think about it. You may see this connection as an opportunity, but do you think a game company will trust its money on a stranger's idea?

But if you are insistent on presenting your idea, you also have to note a few things:

1) What game engine they're using. Sorry to say, but all game engines have their limits. If you are working in Unreal, you may have an issue making an RPG as opposed to a basic shooter. Some companies have their own engine...that's another thing all together.

2) Your idea. If your idea sounds like another game, it will be most likely shot down. Companies aren't looking for same-old ideas, they are looking for your to know its engine and take it to the next level. There are design theories that exist that companies look for...balance, dynamic layouts, telling a story through the setting, stuff that they will test you on. The idea is not enough...see notes above.

3) You must adhere to THEIR style. You may have an idea, but it's how you fit to their company that will get you the job. A company won't just take an idea and bow down to everything you've setup because it's YOUR idea. Investors will always have the last say and the amount of "influence" they can have on a game company's direction is flat-out ridiculous. You may have an idea of a shooter, but an investor can change it to a racing game...it happens all the time.

I hope this helps. Sorry to be so...harsh.

All of this is pretty spot on. I'm studying digital game design & am currently doing an internship in a game studio that has a number of releases behind them since they spun out of a large well known game company. They have so many ideas between them that as a design student I'm just learning how to polish, balance & implement their ideas. They don't have any need for any of my original ideas, just my spin on what they already have.

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Mon, 09/05/2016 - 09:20
#9
Willem Verheij
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It's alright to be harsh,

It's alright to be harsh, that only encourages me to push harder. I'll adress all of your points.

1) I do have the talent to make these ideas, because I keep having these ideas I write them down. I seem to have found quite a few things that have not been done yet and which I think would be a large audience for. My friend is helping me out to let these companies hear my ideas, if they want to do anything with it we will just have to wait and see.

2) I have a background in retail and have a pretty good idea what would be possible in the usual development timeframe. It would not be possible to launch a new fighter game with 50 fighters and 20 gamemodes after all. I pay close attention to other videogames. What they launch with, how people respond to it, the kind of budget used for it, etc.
I have some ideas that pretty much require a large budget, but most could be done with a modest budget as well, and if succesfull a sequel could be made on a larger budget.

3) I have to start somewhere. Just need to be heard since currently I am invisible. It seems I have a talent for finding the blind spots in the market and it is something I should be exploiting. It is something that can make game companies a lot of money because they would be covering new ground.

Regarding working in game design:

Thats pretty much what I am trying to accomplish here, bringing my ideas along. I am mainly a storyteller and have worked on writing and making stories in various forms.

Online roleplaying, picture stories with playmobil aimed at kids, drawing and writing short comics that where published by the school newspaper, developing my own fantasy setting for which I am currently writing my first book, etc. And I learned from all these experiences.

I finished my education for scenario writing this year and a few weeks ago I made a short movie during a course in Amsterdam with eight other people. This did make me more aware of the other aspects than writing in film making and I helped out in other fields than writing.
I also managed to provide the ones that wanted to act with roles that suited them, and they performed well in them. I also kept the shooting time of a single day in mind and that it was bound to rain that day.

But I am not a programmer or any of that. At most I have modded some gamefiles where it was easy enough to do so. Mainly Medieval 2 total war. Not everyone can be a programmer. My talents are not there, and it is best left to those who do have a talent for that part.

Just like with making our short movie, we had a very talented production manager that none of us could have replaced. Also a very talented actress that was able to display a wide range of emotions in subtle ways. And it is the teamwork that made all the pieces fall together. And I am very much a team player.
Personally I would have prefered taking some more risks, giving the story a bit more bite but I adapted to the group and what they wanted. I wrote it together with someone else so we both had to compromise.

Regarding presenting my idea:

1) I know they have limits. While I do pitch some new ideas its nothing too extreme on the technical part. It would not be my decision either way what engine it is build on. When pitching ideas for companies with their own engine, I would pitch ideas that would match their track record.

2) As I said, I look for the gaps. A lot of things have not been explored yet and especially in recent years the big companies tend to keep pushing easy sequels with mostly just small time developers and indie developers truly doing something new.
I do expect ideas to be shot down, but dont know yet which ones. I do have some ideas that have been done in the past, many years ago with much weaker technology that could not do it proper justice yet.

3) I certainly plan to try and appeal to their particular style and way of working. And I certainly expect that my decisions will not be final even if they take my ideas. Developing a game is a team effort.
I do keep the commercial side of it in mind for the investors. I am sure they would be interested to find a new triple A franchise they can keep pushing for more than 10 years or such.. hence I do keep the future in mind and sequel potential.

It's fine to be harsh, and I'd really like to take your concerns away by telling you my ideas, but I can't. Thing is that I have grown up with always thinking differently about things than other people.

When other kids where copying in their play what they saw on tv, I took parts of it and adapted it, telling new stories.
I truly wish I was born with a straightforward talent like carpentry or something else very practical, but I am not. Instead my talents seem to be on the creative side. I tend to pick up and create patterns pretty quickly.

When I was 18 I took an elaborate IQ test. It included a perception test that had me solving small puzzles made of 12 blocks. Easy to solve yes, but it was about the speed you could do it.
I scored an 18 there with 10 being the average score. And I knew I could have done it even faster if my hands allowed it, my hands couldnt keep up with my mind.

In the other parts of the test I scored pretty average though, sometimes slightly below average, sometimes a bit above.But this really stood out.

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Mon, 09/05/2016 - 15:00
#10
radioactivemouse
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The industry

The video game industry isn't just about ideas. It's extremely high competition, tons of social networking, a bunch of logistical issues that have nothing to do with your game design (like...how to work someone's schedule when they're off taking care of a baby), and the ability to work within a team and be willing to separate yourself from your design because it WILL change.

I admire your confidence, but be wise. Don't burn your gears. Learn Unity or Unreal. Get yourself to a place like Game Developers Conference or submit to IndieCADE or publish a board or card game through Kickstarter. Build a reputation or being a game designer, don't try and get in at the top. Just because you have an opportunity, doesn't mean it will work out for you.

What I haven't told you is that the video game industry can be very VERY ugly. I never saw it until I was actually in the industry, but don't think it's peaches and cream and your way all the time.

You're going to have to make some sacrifices if you want to be in the video game industry.

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Mon, 09/05/2016 - 16:08
#11
questccg
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The problem is they are just "ideas"

Like I said, people all have "ideas". There's really nothing more like getting some "video game" *ideas* from some random "guy". Jay is right, you'll need to try to bring some of those ideas "to life". At least in a moderate form... Not saying the whole video game - but a part - if it's a FPS, maybe design one level using Unreal.

I have one "video game" idea - which spans 16 pages of detailed research into the "Star Wars" Franchise. I too have one spectacular idea that is so freaking unique - nobody has thought of it - YET.

In my 16 page document, I describe how to create a MMORTS in which a player may control up to 10,000,000 troops! It's insane how I got to working with the Star Wars database/wiki and learned as much as I could about the Franchise from the "outside". I know there is NO MMORTS that allows you to control 10,000,000 troops, not even 1,000,000 troops.

The design is pretty elegant and features the use of AI to control vast amounts of units on different planets or in Space. To briefly explain, as you move up in Rank, you get to control more units, bases, starships, and planets.

At any point if the AI is taking a beating, you can zoom into the planet and take control of any bases/units on that planet - making the combat PVP (several against several) since other players may just be starting the game on that planet and only have 1 base to command.

I met online a guy who was specialize in 10,000 LAN server configuration (LAN parties/conferences) and had been a playtester for several LucasArt games including popular FPS games too. I did all the writing but he put in ideas too.

I submitted it to LucasArt and specified "c/o Game Development".

Do you know what happened??? LucasArt mailed me back the content, unopened saying: "They do not accept ideas from the outside because this could create legal problems."

Anyhow the game concept is OUT THERE now, since I have posted this short entry. I too would love to work with a team to bring this type of MMORTS to life. Being a Supreme Commander/Moff or a Surface Marshal, controlling 1 Sector army in 2 to 4 systems means 5,000,000 - 10,000,000 troops!!!

Would be AMAZING!!! You'd be like a Fireman - putting out "fires" on different planets. Fully immersive MMORTS game.

16 pages of content for ONE (1) game... Took over 1 month to write a specs document for the game...

Anyhow back to the OP. You need to really research your idea, not ideas, and focus on trying to bring ONE (1) to life - not a bunch... Like Jay says, you need to get some of your stuff "out there" too.

Just offering another perspective!

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Mon, 09/05/2016 - 16:29
#12
X3M
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@questccg The concept you

@questccg
The concept you described is already out there as Planetary Annihilation. Although, the numbers in mid-game are around 10keey-ish?? at the moment. No doubt they will keep increasing them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRRqf8BZjC4

***

As a fellow dutch-man, please listen to their advice.

And Unreal is one of the best 3D editors out there. Just start designing and learning. Plenty of tutorials, hints, tips, tricks etc. out there. I worked with it myself for a while as well. Created some maps for UT back in the old days. Created textures. Modified some weapons. The options are rather unlimited.

I know that even someone tried to get an RTS running with the Unreal editor.

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Mon, 09/05/2016 - 16:32
#13
Willem Verheij
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The thing is that you need

The thing is that you need connections to get anything out there. I have none.

I am working on a book which I hope to have mostly finished by the end of the year. No big deal if its not done yet then but I hope to be at least close to finishing it by then.

I've no problems going past the usual chain of how things go. If it works it works, if not well then its a shame but I'll move on.

That my ideas and concepts will be changed is quite fine, I dont mind making a compromise and am open to change to make things better. Since there generally are no alternatives for the ideas I have, I'd be quite happy already to be able to put such games out there.

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Mon, 09/05/2016 - 16:46
#14
questccg
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Must be Star Wars!

X3M wrote:
@questccg
The concept you described is already out there as Planetary Annihilation. Although, the numbers in mid-game are around 10keey-ish?? at the moment.

@Ramon: Cool for the link... Took a look. Mine is set in the Star Wars Universe... So as long as LucasArt doesn't put out a MMORTS with 10,000,000 troops - it's okay! :)

There might be other games - but the fact that I learned the SW Culture, and the different units from each faction, the personalities, the wonders of the SW universe. All cool stuff that is unique from "Planetary Annihilation".

Undoubtedly, I have played other MMOs with 20,000+ troops... easy. That's nothing new. I once controlled over 50,000+ troops in one MMO. That was cool - but I enjoyed the diplomacy much better... I was 2nd in command and went from unranked to top 5 overall. Took a lot of negotiations. But I did it. When I quit playing, we were the #1 ranked team on that server.

But ya - unless it's Star Wars, I don't really care! :D

Cheers.

Note: if you think 10,000,000 units is TOO MUCH - well you don't understand the concept of SHARED "resources/units". So you as a higher ranking officer can HELP another player by controlling his bases/units and collaborate with others to help secure a planet... You become like a "wingman" - you help others with their battles. Some are pure AI controlled units, others are actual players. But the end-cap is 10,000,000 units (in total = AI + actual players).

Note #2: if each player on average controls 50,000 units, the number of players playing the game would only need to be 200 on one server. That's like NOTHING!!! 200 players and you could be able to control 10,000,000 units... AMAZING! :P

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Mon, 09/05/2016 - 19:28
#15
Tedthebug
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Unity & Unreal

Unreal has a nice simple drop in & use first person controller, 3rd person controller etc that has all the basics like move, run, jump, camera control etc ready & working. Unity has something similar but it isn't quite as easy to set up. There is a nice free asset for Unity (from memory it is called ProBuild) that lets you carve out levels within the game engine for rapid prototyping. Unreal has blueprinting (visual scripting) which can aid some development if you can't code in C++.

My design teachers are all writers (published) & worked in narrative design in industry for AAA companies. They all had to learn how to build levels in engine & balance values so that the level design worked. As part of our course we have had to learn how to make basic 3D models & how to code enough to make prototypes that demonstrate the key mechanics so that pitches will work. We have to know how to create presentations showing all aspects of the game design & market analysis to show that the game is worth investing time/$ in. We need to have the background story, player & character motivations worked out as well as all in game economies (not just gold but things like stamina, health, time, space/area etc). What our teachers have drummed into us is that unless you can bring multiple skills then you have little chance of getting into the industry as everyone working in the industry already has a lot of ideas of their own that they are trying to find time to work on.

For some evidence, jump into the Unity forums & look at how many are ideas guys looking for people to work in their idea for the next big thing & how many have downloaded it because they are about to make, with no knowledge of coding etc, a FPS open world rogue like with zombies. The common response from the main people (working at LucasArts, Disney & other AAA franchises) is to keep writing the ideas down but to take 2yrs+ learning other in engine skills to make themselves more marketable.

Anyway, all you can do is try. Good luck

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Mon, 09/05/2016 - 21:12
#16
questccg
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Fork in the road

About 15 years ago, when I was working for a Financial Institution as an Analyst, I got a strange phone call, completely out of the blue. I don't remember exactly what the person on the phone said, but to paraphrase it, it was something like: "We're contacting you because of your resume and your background. We'd like to know if you would be interested in coding games..."

Now at the time, (like I said) I was an Analyst at a Financial Institution. So of course, I laughed and responded: "Sorry I'm already working and am satisfied with my working conditions."

BOY AM I KICKING MYSELF IN THE @SS RIGHT ABOUT NOW! :P

I had a clear and definite chance to break into the "Video Game" business and I turned that offer down. Why? Because I felt like my day job was fulfilling enough... not knowing that about 6 months down the line, I would lose that job because they were re-thinking the IT affairs - and that led to very profitable years in Consulting which also bottomed-out. I'm very grateful to have a full-time job now.

But AGAIN - I could have maybe been a part of the "Video Game" industry...

In hind-sight, maybe I should have taken the "Video Game offer" ... at least to see if it was for Ubisoft or EA, or some other Video Game GIANT. At that time there weren't many studios around town... Only the big ones.

Ah how stupid you can be when you're young...!

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 11:49
#17
radioactivemouse
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I did the same thing...a bunch of times

questccg wrote:
About 15 years ago, when I was working for a Financial Institution as an Analyst, I got a strange phone call, completely out of the blue. I don't remember exactly what the person on the phone said, but to paraphrase it, it was something like: "We're contacting you because of your resume and your background. We'd like to know if you would be interested in coding games..."

Now at the time, (like I said) I was an Analyst at a Financial Institution. So of course, I laughed and responded: "Sorry I'm already working and am satisfied with my working conditions."

BOY AM I KICKING MYSELF IN THE @SS RIGHT ABOUT NOW! :P

I had a clear and definite chance to break into the "Video Game" business and I turned that offer down. Why? Because I felt like my day job was fulfilling enough... not knowing that about 6 months down the line, I would lose that job because they were re-thinking the IT affairs - and that led to very profitable years in Consulting which also bottomed-out. I'm very grateful to have a full-time job now.

But AGAIN - I could have maybe been a part of the "Video Game" industry...

In hind-sight, maybe I should have taken the "Video Game offer" ... at least to see if it was for Ubisoft or EA, or some other Video Game GIANT. At that time there weren't many studios around town... Only the big ones.

Ah how stupid you can be when you're young...!

OMG, I can totally relate. I was working at a tuxedo shop and was going to school for art and I got a random call from an animation company looking for a 3d animator. They like begged me if I had any skill in animating, and I turned them down. Little did I know that like 10 years later I'd be a 3d animator.

Years later I was working on GTA4 when I got a random call to work as a level designer at Ready At Dawn. They wanted me to take a level design test because of the impression I made when I did a similar test at Blizzard. I told them I was already working, but little did I know I would be let go a few weeks later.

I was working at a Korean game company and I got a call to work as an animator, but I had just started at the company and I didn't want to just leave so soon after I got hired, so I said no and I missed out on working on Red Dead Redemption and The Curious Case of Benjamin Button as a facial animator.

Yeah, I kick myself in the a$$ all the time.

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 14:24
#18
X3M
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Read that.

http://wannabe.urustar.net/

Read it!

READ IT!!

Read every god!@#$ link that page offers!

Then let at least me know how you feel about it.
Don't assume things.
do.
DO!!
From start to end.

***

I also know someone who is following university course. Just to be a programmer. Man... is he going to have problems finding a job.

Not only do you need to study hard. But one needs to have at least some talent.

I actually followed everything from start to end. On paper.
Then I worked together with a programmer that wanted to learn. Eventually, he did things not right. And the game went from 0 to 100 to 0 players within a month.

If only, I had the time and knowledge to programm at a higher level than the TI92+.
But I have a daily job. So...noooo!! Kicking my own @$$ and straining a leg!

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 16:28
#19
Willem Verheij
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Well I am also a scenario

Well I am also a scenario writer and while I followed a course where we went with a small team through the entire process, we all had clearly defined tasks there.

And when making a movie, the scriptwriter does not need to be a director, actor, cameraman, producer, art director, etc.

It helps to have an understanding of the other tasks or even some experience with it, but it is not a requirement.

I play plenty of games and for many years now to have a good grasp of what is and is not possible, and I prefer to leave coding, programming and all that to people with a talent for it. Just like I'd leave directing and acting to people who are good at that.

Regarding what I can do for gamedesign other than working out the initial concept is the story. That takes a lot of time too to properly work out character backgrounds, the setting, places, organisations, plots, branching dialogue, etc.

All of this requires a lot of research as well. And I tend to know where to look. And when I dont I make sure to find out. I also tend to keep track of what interests the people around me have since that can help me further with this research too. Earlier this year I worked on a script featuring a samurai, and I knew someone who is very much into Japan. So I sat down with her twice for some hours to discuss it.

Too many games neglect this part and as a result, even the best videogame stories are only on par with an average movie. And often games tend to have various things that break the immersion like for example having people summersault over others in plate armor with huge axes in a game that tells a serious and dramatic story.

Research and story, very important.

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 18:31
#20
radioactivemouse
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Reality...

Willem Verheij wrote:

Too many games neglect this part and as a result, even the best videogame stories are only on par with an average movie. And often games tend to have various things that break the immersion like for example having people summersault over others in plate armor with huge axes in a game that tells a serious and dramatic story.

Research and story, very important.

I don't think you understand. It's not as simple as you make it to be. No one sets out to make a bad game with a bad story. Just because you feel like you can do better doesn't mean a bad game was intended to be that way.

There are many hands that touch a video game before it releases. The hard part is getting the 50...100...300...1000+ people to agree on the same vision. THAT'S the challenge and always has been. While I don't doubt that you can produce a better story, can you manage hundreds of people to stick to that story, knowing that everyone will add their own spin on their work that may interfere with your vision? In addition, can you change gears on the fly and be willing to upend your vision to another one in the middle of production just because an investor says so? It happens....ALL THE TIME in the game industry.

Borderlands cel shaded style came in 1/2 way through production. Could you have told the whole art team to totally scrap the style they've been working on for years for another one?

Diablo 3 went through several total-game changes before its final product. It literally took decades before it released.

Overwatch was supposed to be the next Blizzard MMO...if you were hired and dead set on making Blizzard's next MMO only to shrink it down to a 5-10 minute skirmish game...

I'm not even talking about accounting for every path any given player will take...a typical voice actor script for a video game is easily over 4x the script for, say an animated cartoon.

My point in all this is that being a "game designer" is a hell of a lot more than it seems. I mean A LOT. Almost all hired game designers are home-grown (rose up the ranks of the company). While you say it's ok that people change your vision, the struggle has always been vision = resources. As a designer/writer, you WILL cut your work for the sake of time/money/demand.

It's not a glorious position. But if you're really dead set, I wish you good luck :)

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 19:23
#21
questccg
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How about ANOTHER approach

What about making a "Kickstarter" for ONE (1) of your "Video Game" ideas?

Of course this will take a HUGE effort to put something COHESIVE enough that backers might say: "I want to play this game."

I think you should be looking to find "Indie" Dev Studios that might be willing to make a KS for about $200,000 - $500,000 to produce your game. And believe me those figures are NOT BS. That's the average range of what "Video Games" cost to produce once you pay the artists, voice actors, developers, and last but not least the project manager.

So maybe if you spent like $5,000 to produce a well-oiled (Slick) video and KS presentation - maybe you might get enough backers.

WHY NOT? The worst thing you can do IS TRY. Do something about it.

Instead of ideas - try to build a business plan around an "Indie" Studio - do research (Google Job Positions and Annual Salaries) and try to put together something of a POTENTIAL team for the project.

It's going to be tough and you'll AT LEAST spend $5,000 of your own money to finance the KS production. I think $5,000 is pretty low for a $200,000 - $500,000 project.

Spend time RESEARCHING and building a business plan. That something you CAN DO and it's FREE! Only requires your time. Once the plan has been drafted, you should be looking for people to fill those roles or an "Indie" Studio... Don't ask me how you find one, maybe @radioactivemouse might have some ideas. PM him or reply to this thread.

The point is you've got to take IDEAS and make them into some CONCRETE. A KS with a real polished video and nice art to demonstrate you have people who can make it happen - is well AN ACCOMPLISHMENT.

@Jay: Maybe you can talk to us about "Indie" Dev Studios...?

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 19:33
#22
Willem Verheij
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I know they don't set out to

I know they don't set out to make a bad story, but I do feel that many games underestimate the value of the story and of good voice acting.

There is also the thing that for gameplay purposes some odd sacrifices may have to be made that can especially become very noticeable in story driven games.
Like how in pretty much every RPG the player is a mass murdering corpse looting psychopath.
Yet still your character is seen as a paragon of justice despite wearing the armor he stole off the corpse of an evil baron, making a fortune selling stolen goods and killing everyone he ever fights. Wether its a bandit who is clearly driven to desperate acts because of all the trouble thats going on in the land, a house guard of that evil baron just doing his duty or some wild animals simply defending their natural habitat on which you intrude.

And the majority of games does not seem to bother much with the story at all. Its just kind of there as a thin excuse for the action.

I am not saying that all games should have a deep story. Not all movies need it either. Some are just for laughs or seeing a one man army at work while making memorably one liners.

There is still a lot of room for improvement though, and I'd very much like to be a part of that, to figure out together with others how to improve it without sacrificing fun gameplay.

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 19:45
#23
questccg
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Your GOAL

Make a simple goal: build a business plan and try to find the resources to fit that business plan.

If you do that... All that will be missing is a nice KS "Video".

You can maybe get by with artwork (nice/cool drawings)...

And see if you can convince people that your ONE (1) Game Idea is worthwhile trying to bring to life.

People are spending $500.00 for KS videos (for just the video production). You are going to need sample artwork or screenshots of "something" related to your game.

Maybe just present nice artwork?!

Anyhow I think just putting together the "business plan" will be hard enough. How do you validate it? Bring it to your bank and ask them if they will loan you money - based on this idea. That's one easy way to see if people see your "business plan" to be concrete and worth something.

That's my advice to you: build a business plan around ONE (1) idea.

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 19:57
#24
questccg
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It's always about "trying"...

Willem Verheij wrote:
I know they don't set out to make a bad story, but I do feel that many games underestimate the value of the story and of good voice acting.

Are you saying Blizzard's Starcraft and Starcraft II did not have sufficiently compelling storylines? I for one player Starcraft and I was fully immersed into the story - so much so I would spend countless hours trying to reach the next level - just so that the animated sequences would play and the storyline would be slowly revealed.

If you criticize someone's game - the onus is on YOU to make a BETTER one.

Just saying game X, Y, and Z are all crappy - is like calling the kettle black. Big deal... At least those people developed their ideas - they did something.

What I'm trying to say is this: "Ideas, good or bad, are not enough. You need to produce something of value that is concrete."

By doing this - you are take steps in the right direction. No doubt the project will change from the outset - but that's another thing: bending to the demands of the team, changing the feature set based on the timeline, etc.

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 20:03
#25
radioactivemouse
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Like I said...

Willem Verheij wrote:
I know they don't set out to make a bad story, but I do feel that many games underestimate the value of the story and of good voice acting.

There is also the thing that for gameplay purposes some odd sacrifices may have to be made that can especially become very noticeable in story driven games.
Like how in pretty much every RPG the player is a mass murdering corpse looting psychopath.
Yet still your character is seen as a paragon of justice despite wearing the armor he stole off the corpse of an evil baron, making a fortune selling stolen goods and killing everyone he ever fights. Wether its a bandit who is clearly driven to desperate acts because of all the trouble thats going on in the land, a house guard of that evil baron just doing his duty or some wild animals simply defending their natural habitat on which you intrude.

And the majority of games does not seem to bother much with the story at all. Its just kind of there as a thin excuse for the action.

I am not saying that all games should have a deep story. Not all movies need it either. Some are just for laughs or seeing a one man army at work while making memorably one liners.

There is still a lot of room for improvement though, and I'd very much like to be a part of that, to figure out together with others how to improve it without sacrificing fun gameplay.

Like I said, good luck. I can only tell you what I've experienced in my years in the game industry. Your path may be different. I will highly suggest you move to a place where you can interact more with people of your interest...Los Angeles, San Francisco, Austin, Seattle, London, Tokyo...somewhere. Reputable companies want their Designers in-house and you'll have to prove yourself on other shipped games before a company will invest the money to move you.

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 20:18
#26
questccg
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"AAA" Franchise

The problem is the fact that not all games are "AAA" Franchise games.

Take a look at Halcyon 6:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kenseto/halcyon-6-starbase-commande...

Almost $200,000 CAD raised to make the game. Like I said expect a budget between $200,000 - $500,000 depending on the type of game, the type of artwork, etc. The more voice overs, the more expensive because you need to pay all these people to make the game real.

That's why instead of "Dreaming" about "Video Games", I try to bring to life real "Card Games". I am working on the third version of "Crystal Heroes", a Micro Card Game that plays in 5-10 minutes.

Sure I would have loved to make a Android Cellular game. But I don't have the knowledge, resources or money to do so.

So I am doing what IS possible: making a "physical" card game.

We're all here because we love games. But the reality is that you need to take steps to move forwards... To go from an idea into something concrete.

"Tradewars - Homeworld" is my 2nd game - it can be bought on The Game Crafter (TGC). It scored a 94% on the art test. It's Father Geek Approved - one of the most difficult accreditation to have for a game, because it means the game has a more broad appeal.

And most of all, I am NOT trying to discourage you. Instead I want to help direct you to something that you CAN do... Figure out what you CAN do and try to build the smallest team possible that can bring that to life.

Good luck with your venture... I'm sure you'll find a way to focus your efforts.

Cheers.

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Tue, 09/06/2016 - 23:12
#27
Tedthebug
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Here's some game design ads

Some are a bit old but looking at the skills required could help you present the case for why they should hire you. Most of the ones I found wanted other technical skills as well e.g. Coding,mcreating art briefs etc.

http://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=6d5ae62dd7aa5968&from=serp

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/102384668?trkInfo=searchKeywordString...

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/171650667?trkInfo=searchKeywordString...

https://www.glassdoor.com.au/job-listing/graduate-mathematician-game-des...

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Wed, 09/07/2016 - 00:14
#28
questccg
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I don't think the OP was finding a job as a Game Designer

I think, if I read the OP correctly, he would like to submit "Video Game" ideas to... not sure who.

The mistake is assuming that you can be an "idea man". This is not really a role in actual Dev Studios. The link that Ramon sent explains well enough that the idea of a game is only 1-5% of the actual effort in making a game.

Or that the OP is a way to "submit" ideas to ... again not sure who.

I've been down that road before. That's just not how video games get made. Usually the person in CONTROL is the person "paying the bills". So whomever pays the bills decides what gets done and in how much time (and budget).

So that's why I suggested Kickstarter (KS). People who buy into your game (digital download or Internet-based gaming) assume their share of funding your dream... It's as close to "making it happen" as possible.

But this requires a lot of research and a solid business plan. Not to mention a good flashy video. And some artwork to make the KS page presentable...

I'm just trying to help - bring some "reality" into this "idea submission" for the Video Game industry. From what I understand, that's not how video games are made. But the who am I to contradict the chance that someone is interested?!

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Wed, 09/07/2016 - 03:46
#29
polyobsessive
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Portfolio

What I am picking up as a key point is...

radioactivemouse wrote:
...you'll have to prove yourself on other shipped games before a company will invest the money to move you.

In other words, get a portfolio. I know next to nothing about the videogame industry, but in most lines of work, what really matters is your past record. Ideas are great, but all but worthless on their own. An "idea person" who comes along with a couple of indie games they have successfully worked on, and who can demonstrate an understanding of how the ideas were developed into a product, is going to be looked on a lot more favourably than someone who just has a pile of ideas.

So if you're not good with technical work, you probably would do well to find a friend who is, who you can work with to make something, even if it is just something very small. Then you both have a project in your portfolios and a lot more experience to work with and use to market yourselves.

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Wed, 09/07/2016 - 03:52
#30
polyobsessive
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Yeah

questccg wrote:
I don't think the OP was finding a job as a Game Designer

Yeah, the discussion went in a different direction very quickly. The OP was mostly about how to record ideas and talking about a standard format for noting them down that could be useful for both boardgames and videogames. I've found the thread interesting reading though.

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