GameLand

Personally I think the price point for YOUR game should be around $50 USD. I'm assuming the $52 USD is not the COST for you game... right?! If this is the consumer price ... here's my REAL advice:

Go with a TGC Contract using BOF.

From there if your game is $50 USD and you can LOWER the BULK COST by quite a bit... You don't need to worry about "Tariffs", Fulfillment, Warehousing, or Freight! That's a lot of stuff that can cause you much problems and headaches...

Estimate your game on TGC and then look at BULK. For one thing, TGC gives you 100% of the profit when doing a TGC Contract using BOF. Which means instead of getting 70%, now you get the full 100%.

Secondly you lower the overall COST of manufacturing. Allowing you to have a more "competitive" price point.

NOW what I really wanted to say:

Yes your game is seasonal. But if you use POD, you will not lose money on the venture. Again I see "crazy talk" (if I get 200 units sold, maybe 600 more ...) which is detrimental to really making it in this business.

It's NOT about "hopes & dreams"... In reality IMHO it's about reducing RISK, maximizing profit and lowering the number of players involved in your project (obviously the LESS the better).

And so I want to SLAP you silly ... Because you've gone to LaLa Land again with this idea of using GameLand as your manufacturer and making over 500 units.

You've back down from TGC when it's the most FEASIBLE way to make money and lower your costs and risk. I don't know WHY(?!) perhaps it was the 30% cut ... which TGC does NOT take on Contracts for BOF. They give you the 100% of profit.

Knowing THIS and checking for BULK orders with LOWER Costs to make... I'm sure you could SELL the game at $50 USD. I think it's reasonable!

We should "talk" (more like discuss things AGAIN) because it seems like you've gone from Designing a Successful game to LaLa Land and getting financially invested in something which may be a VERY hard sell.

So let's talk figures and explain to me better your TGC cost structure (one-off production) and then see what 50 or 100 units sold looks like in terms of COST!

I'm not finished with you just quite yet! (LOL)

I just clarified with the Good Folks at "The Game Crafter" is that YOU MUST have the monies to PAY an order at COST (with Bulk Order Fulfillment). What this means is all TGC is concerned about is what the price to MAKE your game IN BULK will COST. All the rest of the monies you have gathered from KS is your "profit" or your "take-away"!

The 30/70 split is ONLY on games sold via TGC's normal one-off production. Or multiple copies. But you get a discount for making over 10 games, meaning a lower cost and more profit BUT still subject to the 30/70 split.

A Contract with BOF is the only way that you ONLY pay the COST to MAKE the game and whatever is left over is profit.

ALSO SHIPPING has to be factored into the price, because TGC will CHARGE YOU for the shipping. So you need to ESTIMATE the shipping pricing using the BOF system without actually ordering the games...

Hope that clarifies some things!

Kickstarter is about "Funding a Dream". It's bringing something into existence that otherwise would not have been made. KS is NOT a "pre-order" system and the campaign makes "promises" for delivery but everything is not "absolute". Sh!t happens and there could be delays (Sorry TradeWorlds Backers!) or the financing can be poorly estimated (like with TradeWorlds) and we are barely breaking even with the production and shipping of the game. So be careful.

I get it... You have the monies to pay for the game. Fine. Guess what? So did I! But the learning curve to this industry is hard. My 2nd attempt I will again be again in the RED. So just be aware that IF you are in the BLACK ... It's much better to make a little than lose a lot IMHO. But I too am learning and seeing that it's NOT about "designing a game". It's about leaner production pipeline, the less amount of parties to produce the less risk, going with realistic expectation and focusing on what you need to do to FUND! The broader the appeal, the more likely that you succeed in funding, etc.

It's about understanding what to offer "backers" to wet their appetites and see if you can GROW from a small "core" to a following... etc. But you need to prepare adequately. It's hard too... It's also about "Repeatable Success" (for smaller campaigns not $100,000+ campaigns)

Best!

I started with:

* The ability to post directly to thousands of people (probably tens of thousands, but about 2000 people who were patreon supporters) who read a comic website featuring my artist's art.
* a 600-person mailing list
* I think 150 facebook followers

(with some overlap I assume.. some people on the mailing list were also website readers, for example)

That would've got me to about 250 in the end, barely making my goal. I hit 350 because of Wil Wheaton's tweet about it with a week to go.

Does that include setup fees? These usually show up separately.

Do you need QA inspection of the boxes (if so, I can recommend a good firm)? Cost me $299.

Do you need lab toxicity testing? I think that was $200 but I don't recall.

Did you allow... I'll say $2500 to get the boxes to a US port? Might be $4000?

Just don't forget.

If you're saying you'll sell (or kickstart) for $25 plus shipping, I'll just tell you that's a lot tighter than you may think. I found it helpful to just figure out total outlay. I'm going to guess yours will be around $11-12k. You'll have to sell over 500 boxes to cover that..

The "x5 is retail price" is based on the *landed* COGS, which is the large number I just gave you, not the $6.75 of the base quote you have. That's why indie board games are so expensive.

That's more of a sales strategy than a marketing strategy, but .. okay. However, I don't see how you can sell this for $25 without taking a very large risk of losing money. That might be okay with you.

There's a reason things sell for $29.95 :)

That's great news! I don't know how big your game is, of course. Mine took up three pallets of space, which is what they charge based on, and was heading to an east cost port. So I'm very glad to hear that yours will be less!

But.. many millions of people play Monopoly. I'll bet a pet food company could say they're targeting people who play Monopoly and do fine :)

I think you maaaay have a skewed sample.

Given that you were talking about SLC, Utah, I was kind of making some unvoiced assumptions there :)

I think that's exactly your best way to market it. Aka "people with strong family Christmas traditions" :p

1. (Bears repeating) We're seeing something special here: this is: "Damn the torpedoes[sorry, Evan, probably the wrong expression given...], I have a vision: I am seeking to create a new tradition," with the follow-through of going through the rigors of this forum and paying for the math gurus.

[That's in fact, what attracted me to this project, given I am so, so, so far away from the audience in that vision. Speaking of which...]

2. The audience is there as the vision resonates, but the extra challenge is finding those who appreciate the vision given its loudest proponents are not just loud but vitriolic. This is for people who may cringe at "Happy Holidays", but get no alpha crusader joy from making Starbucks employees yell out "Merry Christmas." (And Evan, if asked why not "Christmas Fever", remember that fevers are associated with disease. "War on Christmas" is distasteful too.)

I have a vision of this sold at CPAC, and other shows as the gentle alternative to all the other merchandise. Something for the anti-Starbucks blowhards to get for the grandfolk.

3. [Insert 10,000 words on the strengths of Monopoly--at least 8,000 added them purely out of frustration at those who feel they have to take shots at the game whenever it's mentioned] Evan, your game has its strengths, far fewer weaknesses. My advice is that you and your representatives don't use the name in your initial presentation to folk, but if they ask, "It plays like Monopoly" [I'll work on a better response] is a perfectly acceptable answer.

4. As for Christian audiences [final s underlined, capitalized, and in bold], you may wish to reach out to Andrew Lowen of https://deliverancethegame.com/. His faith, knowledge are deep, and he's working on a dungeon crawl that's aimed at the hardcore gamer, but with a deeply researched religious aspect. Not preachy at all, and certainly not for those who found C.S. Lewis' Narnia too mystical. It's a balancing act but he's confident of his space and vision, and of more relevance, mixes in a great deal of marketing talk with his design blogs, videos, and playtest events which he hosts. Ask for links.

Quick? Snort indeed.
Hop and pax. And apostrophe training. Be better.

If you still have 3 pallets in storage after 3 years, you'll definitely want to re-examine your situation :/

Quartermaster is in Florida, so the boat is going through the Panama canal and all that. Also, note that prices vary by season. I shipped out in mid-November and prices were higher then.

Did you really include all the extra costs? I'd at least round that sucker up to $7500. For instance, you should have SOME way of validating that they printed everything correctly before the pallets get on the boat. A correct proof does not mean it's a correct box. I had a printing error that had to be fixed, and if the boxes were in the US it would've been effectively impossible, rather than a 2-week delay that they didn't charge me for.

I don't remember your component list, but my game has a huge solid block of cardboard tiles (8" x 10" x 1.5") and weighs 4 lbs. I suspect you may be below 5 lbs unless you already tested it.

They're a bit weirdly primitive (I have to email orders in), but I like them a lot.

Charge $13.10. Or $13. Or $14. One of the things I liked about QML is that it was the same rate anywhere in the country, which simplifies things.

Take a look at my site if you like, http://www.heroesandtreasure.com . It's obviously made by someone with no graphic design sense, but look at the store part. I found godaddy to be the best deal I could get on something I could easily use. Don't sign up without a coupon of some sort. I think 40% may be generally available.. not positive. I think I actually did the setup through their chat.

Yes on the lab testing, and no on the QA. Certainly not the freight forwarder.

I had a third party do it.. they send someone in on the day that everything is done, and they pull a certain number of boxes off the line and open them and inspect them to see if they match your requirements (you can send them PDFs and all that, in addition to the general component list). I got a big report with like 100 photos of the manufacturing and boxes and every page of the manual, etc. That's how I noticed that there was an error on one page.. it was in one of the photos, even though my proofs were fine.

I was worried that the manufacturer would be miffed about it, but they were happy to have them there.. said they'd rather fix things immediately instead of once it was too late.

That's too bad, but no hurry :)

I "designed" it myself. I don't know web developers I could easily tap, and my artist is an artist.

Consider this a way to BOOST sales (maybe) in Year 1:

Write-up a Press Release for the Newspapers, Radio Stations and TV News in your area (Salt Lake City) ... Because the AVERAGE "reader", "listener" and "viewer" are probably your CORE buyer!

Hold a Press Conference at a Hotel, pay for the Morning Meal (meaning that all press who attend can have a paid for meal) when you are ready to SELL the game...

I looked into this for Quest Adventure Cards(tm). But because of the fact that I was NEW to the game design scene, I did not pursue this "angle".

But IF you get a mention on the Radio, in a couple Newspapers and maybe on Television ... Man, that could be real awesome! Especially like I said because your product has MASS APPEAL to a "non-gamer" crowd.

It's not too expensive to pay for the meals and the renting of a hall in a Hotel for the Press Conference. I think like $500 (maybe less expensive in the USA...) But the potential for PUBLICITY and getting in direct contact with your DEMOGRAPHIC is real important!

Note #1: When I looked into this for Quest AC, they walked me through the process: it's a buffet where each person can eat what they choose from what is available from a pre-arranged menu... Usually Bacon and Scrambled Eggs, Orange Jus or Coffee, Pancakes with syrup, Morning Sausages, Toast, Bagels and Creme cheese, etc.

The key for this to SUCCEED is to be held BEFORE WORK: 7:00 - 8:00 AM.

And the venue might be a Hotel downtown close to the workplaces of the Press Agents because most offices are downtown. Usually it opens at 7:00 AM and the press can have their meals at the tables arranged for them and then about 7:30 AM, you announce the Press Conference begins, talk about the game, the journey and after open up the room to answer questions from the Press.

Simple but effective... I think this FORMAT could help you a lot in terms of getting the WORD "out-there". Have REAL "Business cards" with you, put them on the tables before the Press Conference... Have your name, an e-mail and an online address for BUYING the game. You want them to have your coordinates so that they can include that information (in the Newspapers for example)...

Note #2: And what you do is release a Press Release a few days earlier (before the Press Conference) stating the date, place, time and hour in addition to the complimentary buffet breakfast as being part of the venue. This is how the Press knows when and where to be in order to get more information concerning your "go-live"!

And they see you're not "cheap" in that you offer them a complimentary meal ... sometimes people don't have the time to cook a good and proper breakfast. This is one way to encourage people to attend and get a great start to the selling of "Holiday Fever".

Note #3: Use ONE table to layout the game so that the camera men can take pictures! Your bright and colorful board should be something real neat to capture in photo.

Note #4: About the PRICE (I said $500). Well in my case that was $500 CAD. So if I convert this to US dollars, it should be $375 USD. So between $300 to $400 USD. Probably on the lower end because food is much more affordable in the USA. Anyhow this is how the Hotel Manager told me about previous Press Conferences they had and what WORKS and what doesn't. She says you'd be amazed at how many people will show up!

Make sure you use the correct legal warning msg on the box.

You need "Printed in China" on anything printed in China (box, manual). I was also told that you need the address of the manufacturer on the box.. probably check with GameLand to see if that's true.

Yes with some local publicity, you may get more sales. And because media is syndicated, who knows how FAR your game news may go. It could get broadcasted across the USA (in the best possible scenario). The daily news is usually Local and then National. So the odds of being on Local news is very high... And that's good because locally you'll want people to BUY the game since it's "Designer" lives in SLC.

Yes this too is very important. The GA should offer you a .PSD (Photoshop) drawing with ALL Fonts used to make the business card. This way you can EDIT the information (if necessary).

Getting back to sales, yeah ... 300 could be possible if you get some local media coverage. And maybe some syndication could maybe get you more if multiple papers cover your Press Conference and the story becomes interesting to MORE than local media.

Anyway it is something to think about and determine if you want to try it. If you already have someone you know in News/Media ... Well then he/she may be able to HELP you write-up the Press Release... Such that it attracts the local press!

There are always ways to TRY and see how well they work. Is it going to be effective? Not 100% sure... But people who READ newspapers and watch local TV News ... Are the "mass market" we are talking about for your game. So maybe you would get some more sales too.

Cheers!

Actually it's much harder to find and CONVINCE one local reporter to do a local story. WHY? Because "Press Releases" and "Press Conferences" are a STANDARD way to reach out to the Associated Press. Like I said, most press agents will be local people and that's fine.

About syndication, that I'm not sure... I don't know how it works, what stories get chosen to be printed in other locales (other states for example).

It's like getting a car fixed: you go to a mechanic. Talking to the press, for the most part, should be on neutral grounds (the reporter is not going to go to your home to see if there is a POSSIBLE story to write) and in a venue that is designed to elicit the best possible outcome.

But I never did it... I was just advised on HOW to do it... And that's in my own "neck-of-the-woods" (Up in Montreal).

All my stuff came in little ziplock bags even though I didn't specifically request it. Red plastic circles, plastic card stands, dice. And the card deck was shrink-wrapped, so it's not like they moved around in the box. I have a simple cardboard divider which I believe cost 30c.

I paid 40% down, both times I manufactured so far. I certainly wouldn't pay everything up front.. how will they be motivated to meet any timeline at all? You'd have literally no leverage.

evansmind244, this is an awesome indie story in the making. :) You're certainly not short in the "due diligence" department.

It's almost like I can hear Mr. Burns now: "Everything is falling into place...!"