Tournament of the gods

Mon, 05/31/2021 - 05:53

#1

blueyes1010

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Joined: 05/30/2021

fundamentals

right where to begin, i guess the board state

so your board or play area if you will, is going to consist of your draw pile and 3, 5 card capacity zones.
an attack zone and a defence zone at the forefront, followed by a support zone further back next to your draw pile

using these zones appropriately is crucial as you are going to have certain units better in certain zones than others.

for example the support zone is better for keeping units who have strong abilities you want to utilise rather than fight with, as units in this zone cant be targeted during a battle unless you choose to defend with them.

fairly promising playtesting so far has shown these zones to be pretty effective

Mon, 05/31/2021 - 08:22

#2

blueyes1010

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phases

as for how a turn works in the game you will go through 3 phases

-regroup phase - this is where you will gain currency, unbow cards and trigger any regroup phase abilities on units or from your god

-action phase - you have 2 actions to spend on any combination of the following
-draw a card
-deploy a card, if its a unit it deploys bowed unless you pay additional coins to deploy it without bowing it
-use an action on a units card and bow it
-move a unit from one zone to another or in another section of its current zone queue
-discard a card for currency, 3 coins for normal, 5 for unique

-Battle phase - this last phase is a choice, if you trigger it all units in your attack zone attack all the units in your opponents defence zone not including bowed units, battles work individually between units ina stacking fashion, with opportunities for players to play skill cards and use god abilities during to manipulate the outcome if they have the coin to do so

thats the 3 phases of a turn

Mon, 05/31/2021 - 21:19

#3

questccg

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Welcome to BGDF.com! Enjoy your stay.

blueyes1010 wrote:

The deck drafting aspect of this game was actually inspired but hero shooters like overwatch etc as depending on which god you pick, and ive made a bunch, will depend on the kind of mechanics that will be made available to your deck.

I just thought I'd maybe "touch" on one (1) area... The Deck Drafting aspect of your game. Why? Because if you boil down your game to a "core", you'll figure out that AT MOST you can have 4 or 5 Gods for a "core"... So basically in a BOX, you'll probably be able to squeak that many.

Again why is this important? Well as someone who currently has his game in Production... The limitation to box dimensions under 11" x 11" and then shaving some millimeters to get more boxes into a kraft box... It's China, they do everything in millimeters! Go figure.

Well it's cool to THINK about things and fantasize about all kinds of characters, abilities, styles-of play, etc. You've got to be concrete when bringing the game "to-the-market".

If you have Decks per God, my assumption is that EACH God has the SAME amount of cards, right?! (Hopefully) If you have MORE Gods, no worries ... those can come in another Boxed Expansion (4 to 5 more Gods) or in Starter Kits (1 God per kit)... I'm just thinking about REALITY ... Not only your design; but how are you going to introduce it to the players?!

So how many cards per God? 34 plus some??? So 40 cards per Deck (at most)?

Could be 54... Because it's the size of a Standard Deck. Adding 6 more cards is no big deal (60 at most but please less than 100).

I do this with all my games. I get the idea, rough-it-out and then figure what kind of box will the game fit into!?

ALSO I'm not sure this is what you are doing... But I'd recommend ONE GOD, ONE DECK (Pre-made). Sure customization is fine... But for seasoned players. For the FIRST-TIMERS, it's best if you CHOOSE A GOD and then PLAY. If you don't have this... You will LOSE a LOT OF PLAYERS! Trust me on this one...

Why? Well "customization" is cool... Most gamers involved with CUSTOMIZATION are "Magic: the Gathering" (MAGIC) players. See MAGIC players are a breed unto themselves. No other card or board gamer behaves and acts like MAGIC players. PLUS MAGIC players ONLY play ... you guessed it... MAGIC!

So while you THINK "customization" is COOL... It shouldn't be the FOCUS of your GAME... Otherwise very few of the Card and Board Gamers will actually want to play. Why?

It's simple TableTop Gamers want to read the rules, have someone teach them how to play ... And then PLAY the game. They don't want to spend 1 hour looking through cards for "customization"... So that's why I say: "Pick a God" and start to play! Immediate action will help more players get into YOUR game.

Asymmetry is great ... and a lot of that OUT-OF-THE-BOX is FANTASTIC.

But you've got to keep it simple if you want people to PLAY. And why do I say this??? Because I'm also VERY INTERESTED in "Card Games" and "Customization". My next game will also have a solid "Customization" aspect... But as in MY case, there are rules to HOW you BUILD a DECK.

Not too complicated ... Enough to make the process simple that even a 9 year old can pick-up a few packs and put them together.

You need something similar. Why? Like I said, I've got a PhD in everything NOT MAGIC and "Customization". To prove it, I have a Game on-hold with 300+ cards that would cost $30,000 alone in Art to produce. It's a full-on CCG... That will never come to market because of the difficulty of gaining Market-Share in CCGs/TCGs.

Here I highly recommend you READ this thread:

https://www.bgdf.com/forum/game-creation/design-theory/why-not-ccgtcg

Again you didn't say your game was a CCG nor a TCG. Which is pretty good... But that thread has over 2000 views and 40 comments. It's worth seeing what people think and share regarding that topic. So I won't go into that now...

So I'll pause with that. We'll have more time to discuss your game some more... And this was ONLY the "Deck Drafting" mechanic of your game.

There is so much to talk about... I'll wait until other designers chime in with their thoughts. Cheers!

Mon, 05/31/2021 - 22:10

#4

questccg

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To help you out a bit...

If you have 6 cards "exclusive" to each God... That sounds like GREAT Asymmetry. Then you say that 34 are the remaining of YOUR Deck... Hmm...!

The idea of choosing 34 cards as a BEGINNER to your game... Is well... A VERY "daunting" TASK! Again most TableTop Gamers are NOT MAGIC players. And asking them to CHOOSE 34 cards ... is just too much.

Some ideas: Make TUPLES of cards. Like 3 or 4 cards AT MOST of one card.

This is great because it forces LESS original CARDS onto one player and DRAMATICALLY reduces the COST of ART, complexity of DESIGN and makes it much easier to understand that instead of 34 cards, YOU ONLY CHOOSE TEN (10) CARDS, 3 of the same...!

This means that the DECK is comprised of TEN (10) UNIQUE cards. Maybe you could have TEN (10) UNIQUE CARDS per GOD... And that would be 30 + 10 = 40 cards as per your original design.

Another idea: "Factions" or "Affiliations".

So while Card "A" is for 3 different gods ... Card "B" is only for 2 different gods. This is great for MORE customization after players have EXPERIENCED the game OUT-OF-THE-BOX and WANT MORE.

Again the idea would be to have 40 cards per GOD, PRE-DETERMINED. But each card has "Affiliations" meaning that card can be used by DIFFERENT GODS but NOT all of them.

This is more complex... But when you explain it to a 9 year old... He's going to understand that because it's simple to say this CARD can belong to these TWO (2) or THREE (3) GODS.

But I would make it "Factions" and GODS separate for EXPANDABILITY. If you define "Five" (5) Factions ... Each GOD can have his/her own "Factions" that cards can be chosen from.

And if you release a Big Box Expansion... With 4 or 5 new GODS... Well then you could ADD ONE (1) NEW "Faction" in that expansion! Do you SEE what I mean??? About YES Customization ... But SMARTER than starting with "customization" when players haven't EVEN PLAYED the game YET!

So far, that's what I got to share with you. Feel free to respond, ignore, question, comment on these ideas or others. Cheers!

Mon, 05/31/2021 - 22:50

#5

questccg

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Just to be clear ...

A minor EDIT:

questccg wrote:

But when you explain it to a 9 year old... He's going to understand that because it's simple to say this CARD can belong to these TWO (2) or THREE (3) GODS.

It should be the other way around: A CARD belongs to one or more "Factions" (and/or affiliations)... Each God has a pre-determined list of "Factions" you can choose cards from.

Just wanted to clear that up. To keep it simple and flexible.

Tue, 06/01/2021 - 11:44

#6

blueyes1010

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Joined: 05/30/2021

right theirs a lot to unpack

right theirs a lot to unpack here so i will try and work my way through it
first off i want to reiterate that this is just a hobby build, unfortunately due to the nature of my work and other constraints, its highly unlikely that this will be a game that is produced as a product, it will more likely be something me and my circle of friends can play together.
However i will try and answer some of these points as if i were intending to produce just for clarity.

If i were to make a box it would most likely start with 3 gods in it, yes each god will have the same amount of cards, ive made a whole bunch of gods but they are not all balanced yet, more playtesting of them is required.

So my idea for beginners would have been preset decks recommended for each god that would have come with the core game.
Just as an entryway to get beginners into the game, then the deck building would be for those who are more experienced and want to customise their experience. The gods card will have the recommended starter deck printed on its reverse.when you do get into the deck building i have multiple types for that so you can try different ways for building to see which you prefer.

The rules for the game i believe are very simple, it wont take very long or much effort to learn them. A game or two and you would pretty much have it down to pat for the most part. i playtested with a friend and they picked it up pretty quick , and they dont really play card games like this.

Tue, 06/01/2021 - 11:53

#7

blueyes1010

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so here like i said

so here like i said previously there will be recommended pre-made decks for new starters to play that will have everything they need to learn how to play.

to be honest my intentions are for their to never be duplicates of the same card, each will be individual, so i guess it would be closer to an LCG in that respect. If there were boxes and expansions for this you would be told exactly what you would be getting in it.

I had originally had a faction and trait system implemented into the game but i removed it because it just felt overly saturated and complicated especially for beginners.
It could be something to consider as an addition for more advanced players to play perhaps.
The thing is i truly believe from playtesting what their is so far that this game is already going to have a reasonably deep level of strategy, managing your zones and resources are key in this. You have a hell of a lot of plays and tricks available to you, but you cant afford to do all of them, you have to pick and choose what to use and when.
As such the beginner version is a slightly lighter variant where players can be gradually introduced to the greater strategic potential available to them. Especially when they do decide to foray into deck building.
Or they may not want to, they may be content with the simplified version.

Tbh the 40 size deck isnt set in stone, that could be subject to change.
that was just the decksize me and my friend started playtesting with to gauge time and duration of games etc.

Tue, 06/01/2021 - 22:53

#8

questccg

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Don't worry... I'm not trying to "bust-your-balls" ...

blueyes1010 wrote:

...The thing is I truly believe from playtesting what their is so far that this game is already going to have a reasonably deep level of strategy, managing your zones and resources are key in this. You have a hell of a lot of plays and tricks available to you, but you cant afford to do all of them, you have to pick and choose what to use and when.

As such the beginner version is a slightly lighter variant where players can be gradually introduced to the greater strategic potential available to them. Especially when they do decide to foray into deck building.

The key here is BALANCE. And of course TUPLES. Waiting for one (1) card out of 40 cards to "pop-into" your hand sucks. It's the same thing that an old friend of mine who collected MAGIC cards ... was wondering about how to play. He read the rules and thought that there we so many... And then when he thought about HIS cards, he had no clue HOW to build a deck.

So your concept of 10 unique cards per God is GREAT. Offers a bit of Asymmetry and that adds a lot to replayability. You've got that down pack I believe so...?!

Where it gets a bit nebulous is your understanding of "card games" (competitors and how that impacts your own design). REAL MAGIC Decks have TUPLES of cards. So you have 3 or 4 of a card in duplicate. MAGIC allows up to FOUR (4) but with a larger deck 60+ cards... You can understand why!?

My opinion is with your amount of cards, your "sweet spot" is probably three (3) of a card. Making the Deck comprised of ten (10) cards (10 x 3 + 10 = 40 cards per Deck). Now I'm only working with YOUR figures. What YOU stated were the card counts and tweaking them just a BIT to ensure that you have what player's NEED to just break-out a pack and play a game.

blueyes1010 wrote:

Or they may not want to, they may be content with the simplified version.

That's true too... You don't want to force people INTO customization. But the activity may occur after the players play a few games.

Another HARD to achieve aspect is: Player Kits.

I tried this with Tradewars and it failed miserably. Okay I made $800 USD for about 35 copies sold. It was a complete bust... But it was a START.

If you can perfect the LCG format when it comes to buying ALL-IN Kits... That may be a good way to go.

Anyways I'm not "busting your balls" ... I'm just touching on ONE (1) of the aspects that you mentioned and felt that you might benefit from another opinion and also share with you some ideas into how to make the game IRL.

Design we usually do on our own. But getting a 2nd opinion from someone with a different experience, can help. Look TradeWorlds (2nd Edition of Tradewars) got a good boost after numerous playtests. After 4 hours of playtesting, the group finally yielded some improvements that we implemented to make the game better.

So (just some practical advice) listen to what people share with you... And then see how that CAN (it doesn't always) affect your Design Idea.

Wed, 06/02/2021 - 01:12

#9

blueyes1010

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i can certainly understand

i can certainly understand that, i havent mentioned yet their are two types of rarity cards, common and uniques, so perhaps a solution would be multiples of common cards as your only allowed a certain amount of uniques anyway as they generally are powerful game changer cards. The 6 unique god cards are of the same rarity, the reason i made it six was so that you can have 4 more other unique cards aswell. so your deck would consist of 10 uniques and 30 common cards. But like i said that could be subject to change, with the introduction of multiple copies i would probably put it up to a 50 card deck.

yeah my friend playtesting with me has been pretty invaluable really, once i can have more of my friends over the intention is to have bigger playtest groups. The main thing for me to do singularly at the moment is balance the gods as some are definetly a little more potent than others at the moment haha so some balancing is needed.

Wed, 06/02/2021 - 01:26

#10

blueyes1010

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in fact thinking about this

in fact thinking about this now what a better idea could be is up the god unique cards to ten anyway , and leave the rest as all commons, and have it so that uniques are just god unique cards, then i need only design the common cards.

The reason i think this could work well is, in this game unique cards are major powerful cards wether it be a unit or a skill card, i havent touched on these aspects on the game on here yet but will do. Theyre very expensive but incredibly strong, much like the ultimate ability of each god. So a good balance could be 10 uniques that are god specific.
I could always branch it out later with additional options so you could mix and match them a bit more. But that could also work great towards god balancing too. Some are a little OP, one in particular ALIAS the god of illusions is a bugger to fight because he can copy his opponents units and abilities and you cant look at his hand. But i have increased the cost of his powers to supplement this, and compared to other gods there income creating mechanics are only average.

regardless the input is appreciated.

Fri, 06/04/2021 - 18:52

#11

questccg

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How I started to learn MAGIC

Like a old friend of mine, I too was interested in MAGIC ... But not in collecting cards, instead I was curious from a DESIGNER's standpoint of view. This game had been around since 1996, I hadn't heard about it in its early years (we didn't have any gaming stores nearby - FLGSs) but we did have COMIC BOOK stores and that's how some of my friends spent a lot of their newspaper money ... On comics!

Me being the GEEK that I was, I was more interested in Vintage Comics and at the encouragement of one of my many friends, purchasing the #1 Mint Alpha Flight! Never did open that comic up... I also enjoyed Hardy Boys and Choose Your Own Adventure. I also collected CARDS like Star Trek: TNG the Customizable Card Game and things like Blood Wars, Vampire: TES, some movie and TV cards like ET and X-Files...

So I was very much a "COLLECTOR" and although I LIKED the MAGIC cards my friend collected... I was interested in buying packs and collecting cards. Many years afterwards, I learned that PRE-CON Decks was a good way to LEARN MAGIC. A PRE-CON Deck sets you back about $9.99 USD and gives you 60 cards. They're all commons so don't expect to find anything VALUABLE... BUT you can LEARN with these Decks.

I recently did buy two (2) PRE-CON Decks and one was a mid-level Aggro Burn Deck ... Which Adam (One of our BGDF.com members) showed me how I could IMPROVE the deck with more "valuable" cards for play. So now this primarily RED Deck is pretty decent... I understand how to play it... I would be on to the 2nd Deck which was a Control Deck... More complicated to learn... But maybe I'll hit Adam again to help me understand how the deck was designed to be used.

Anyhow ... Learning MAGIC is a chore. But a FUN one. It also explains why most (not all) MAGIC players only play MAGIC and few other games. There is the COST of buying Boosters, Singles, Secret Lairs, Drafting, etc. The WOTC company has MAGIC down to an business machine...

To me I find it fascinating to LEARN more about THE GAME!

questccg wrote:

Where am I going with all of this???

I'm wanted to EXPLAIN one vital uniqueness between MAGIC and TableTop Gamers. And it boils down to "customization". If you think in terms of MAGIC, it's ALL "customization", you can't even PLAY unless you have a Deck of 60 cards (which could be a PRE-CON or just something you've TRIED to hack together). Of course there are RULES to MAGIC ... But they are rather SIMPLE and very accessible. So in MAGIC, you need to figure out "WHAT KIND(S) OF DECK(S) DO I WANT TO PLAY???" And then comes your time of "customization" which can be done with a friends help, buying a PRE-CON Deck and having someone who knows MAGIC explain it to you... And HOW to play it... etc.

TableTop Gamers are a different breed. They want one person to read and understand the myriad of RULES in the game. And yes even GENERALLY EASY games to PLAY ... Can have 20+ Pages worth of RULES. And then have that person TEACH or COACH the GROUP. NOBODY wants to "customize" ANYTHING. At that point in time, if people need to LEARN "How-to-customize" ... You'll lose the entire group (and in general MOST TableTop Gamers).

REMEMBER: I said MAGIC players are SPECIAL and that they ONLY play MAGIC.

Most TableTop Gamers DON'T play MAGIC. They know of the game and know probably some rules, could have played in the past, etc. Most are NOT IGNORANT to MAGIC. But NOWADAYS with the "Cult of the New"... Most TableTop players play a game a few times and then move on to the next one.

THERE IS NO TIME TO CUSTOMIZE!

If the game is GOOD, you'll get multiple playthroughs and that's GREAT. It may get a nice place on the WALL-o-Games... And may get replayed again at a later time... BUT... Odds of "customization" are very LOW.

BUT and there is a BUT... If "customization" is SIMPLE enough and the players enjoyed the "core" game... It MIGHT be worth a SECOND LOOK! And this is where "customization" has a slight window opening... And may allow a RESSURGENCE of Popularity and Interest IN A GAME!

HOW you allow for "customization" is going to determine how much or how little effort players put into making their OWN Deck. If it's SIMPLE and follows some CLEAR rules... Maybe the players will understand, they've been PLAYING a "customized" Deck ALL-ALONG... They just didn't KNOW IT!

That's the case in "Crystal Heroes" (CH) one of my designs that I am currently involved with. Player open up a pack/kit and choose a couple cards and start to play...

WAIT...! You said "CHOOSE"!? Isn't that "customization"... Yes it is. But it's very simple. You choose a Lord or a Lady as your IMMORTAL and you agree on a NEXUS (think known world) to play the game on.

You don't "customize" the "core" cards in a pack (well maybe only one... Later on that...) So you have your Micro Deck of 12 Game Tiles, you shuffle and are ready to PLAY the game! It's a SIMPLE as that.

Where I promised that there could be some CUSTOMIZATION is that in a Pack/Kit there are 13 Game Tiles. You only need 12 of them to play... And the EXTRA Game Tile is a "RARE" one... So you can customize ONE (1) Card in your Micro Deck... Again substituting ONE (1) card is NOT "customization" by anyone's standards. But it lowers the barrier to entry for the game...!

Of course players may buy more Packs/Kits and customize more with uncommon and rare cards, there are 4 uncommon Game Tiles per Pack and only 1 rare one... Again this distribution is common to MAGIC ... But the collection of cards is rather limited... Basically I'm trying to do MORE with LESS.

And that means YES there can be "FULL" customization... After players have played a FEW games and understand better the strategies IN THE GAME!

My conclusion is not yet possible. Why? Because the game has not been completed and not played by the general public. When it gets to that stage... I'm positive more COMMENTS and feedback will be possible. Again I'm NOT pushing "booster packs" or chasing rare cards. I'm simply offering it as a WAY to "customize" your Micro Decks! And that's as simple as it gets...

Cheers and thanks for reading...!

Fri, 06/04/2021 - 19:08

#12

questccg

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Moving forwards

blueyes1010 wrote:

...using these zones appropriately is crucial as you are going to have certain units better in certain zones than others.

Maybe you could make a simple diagram with rectangles to illustrate the Area of Play. Might be easier to visualize and we can discuss this aspect of your game further...

Simpler for everyone to understand and pickup the discussion.

We've discussed "customization" enough... Let's discuss some of the OTHER particularities to your Card Game!

Cheers.

Note #1: BTW if other Game Designers want to chime in with additional input concerning "customization", please feel free to do so! I'm a firm believer in voicing your opinion even if it is different. Having multiple perspectives helps everyone out and offers a more global opinion with a sharing of ideas/thoughts.

Sat, 06/05/2021 - 07:20

#13

blueyes1010

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yeah i mainly play with

yeah i mainly play with tabletop players so i understand that all too well haha, which is why ive tried to make the rules as simplified as possible, even making little cards you can use that describe each phase and what actions you can do like a lot of boardgames tend to have.

So for someone who wants no customisation in the beginning im hoping this should work out pretty well. For once youve read or been taught the rules by someone you pick a god, either randomly or by choice, flip over their card and it will tell you what deck to use, so it s all pre built for beginners.

And you dont necessarily have to delve further than that if you dont want to. The only game me and my friend heavily customised and built our decks for was legend of the five rings, but that process was tedious as hell.
So learning how not to do it from that game ive come up with a few alternate modes for deck drafting for experienced players to to try if they wish.

Well the board setup is pretty simple, just imagine you have two sections at the front, red and blue, each has space for 5 cards in it, these are your attack and defence zones, then you have the same size zone behind them but more central which is your support zone, then your deck draw and discard section is at the back on the right. i can try and put up some diagram if this makes it easier.

Sat, 06/05/2021 - 09:25

#14

questccg

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Diagram not needed... Just answer some questions!

blueyes1010 wrote:

Well the board setup is pretty simple, just imagine you have two sections at the front, red and blue, each has space for 5 cards in it, these are your attack and defence zones, then you have the same size zone behind them but more central which is your support zone, then your deck draw and discard section is at the back on the right. i can try and put up some diagram if this makes it easier.

So this Attack Zone does it start with any cards in it? Or is there some kind of Cost to play a card into it? Or is it just once per turn, etc.???

Same for your Defense Zone... It can have at most five (5) cards, right? But how can you play card from your Hand into the Zone. A bit similar to the questions of the Attack Zone.

How about the Support Zone?! How many cards in it 3 or 5? Or other?? What are the rules governing these "Zones"??? Meaning that only certain TYPES of cards can be placed into the Support Zone?! Or any and all cards can go into that Zone...?

I ask because you fully understand YOUR game. I have no clue how it plays or what are the rules associated with each Zone (if any)...

Sat, 06/05/2021 - 18:07

#15

blueyes1010

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no problem so heres how it

no problem so heres how it works

you get 3 actions in a turn, i think i wrote 2 last time which is incorrect lol its 3

their are 5 possibe actions you can do and one of those is to deploy a card into one of these zones, it will tell you on the card which zone it can go in, but minus some specific ones most can go in all zones.

however when deployed into a zone they come in bowed meaning you cant use them until your next turn. you can however spend additional resources to deploy them unbowed.

all 3 zones have a 5 card capacity, with the exception of one god who takes away the limit from the support zone i believe. As the names suggest you dont put something you wish to attack with in your defence or support zone as it wont be able to and vice versa with defending. however you can use actions to move units from one zone to another.

battles arent done like magic etc where you chuck everything forward you want to fight and everything you want to block with.
if you decide to attack everything in your attack zone attacks, and everything in their defence zone defends. The only exception being bowed units. So you have to make sure it goes in your favour to do so before initiating a battle. your units attack in sequencial order of their queue in the zone, so leftmost unit attacks first and your opponents left most defender defends that attack. all while this is happening you can play skills cards or use god powers to help manipulate the outcome.
Then depending on the outcome it moves to the next left most unit in the queue. Their are powers and skill cards that can manipulate this like changing your opponents queue order or yours to screw with them a bit.

Sun, 06/06/2021 - 05:52

#16

blueyes1010

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battle

This is what happens with units in a battle, ill draw a mock for example

i have 3 units in my attack zone , my opponent has 2 in their defence.
i initiate a battle on my turn so my first leftmost unit in my attack zone, attacks their leftmost defence unit. Now if my unit kills theirs it proceeds to attack the following unit in their defence.
if theirs kills mine then my next attacking unit attacks the same defender.
if neither can kill each other then they both bow out and we move to the next units in the queue.

If any of my attacking units manage to get through all the defenders, whatever ones remain that are not bowed will then deal direct damage to my opponents god. However their are possibilites throughout the battle if you have the coin to change this by bowing out units or buffing your own with skill cards etc.

Sun, 06/06/2021 - 07:03

#17

blueyes1010

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Their was something you

Their was something you mentioned before i also wanted to touch up on, so when you spoke about factions and faction bonuses, and i replied i removed all that as it was too complicated, i havent removed all of it per se, so the cards come in one of six colours, same five as magic plus yellow.

However the colours represent factions not magic type etc, though some are reasonably similar like for example the green faction the forest council is going to largely consist of elves, druids and treants etc.

but some are different like the yellow faction, the ancient dominion, as the name suggests an ancient empire of people with old magic and can ride dragons etc. Part of their inspiration is of an asian background with warrior monks and shrines etc.

Instead of faction bonuses which i felt complicated things though ive given each god affinitys. Meaning each god can only have card colours of its affinity. Each god has an affinity to 3 colours, so for example Alaric the god of wealth has affinity to white, blue and yellow.
white is the human empire so they possess merchants and wealth etc, blue is raider and pirates so they would pray to this god for a good hoard, and lastly yellow the ancient dominion has control of all kinds of ancient artefacts and wealth. their the kind of lands indiana jones would have a wet dream over. So ive made sure the affinities have thematic ties too.

Now their are alternative game modes where you can ignore affinities in deck drafting , so in other words you can use any colour cards you want, but the classic game mode will stay with the affinity rule.

Sun, 06/06/2021 - 12:49

#18

questccg

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I agree with you 100%

blueyes1010 wrote:

...Instead of faction bonuses which i felt complicated things though ive given each god affinitys. Meaning each god can only have card colours of its affinity. Each god has an affinity to 3 colours...

Yes that is EXACTLY what I thought! "Affinities", "Affiliation", etc. Generally you want to STATE that a GOD can use "X" Colors to build his/her own Deck. That's great... And you can build a STANDARD Deck right out of the box with tuples of cards that make the deck CUSTOM ... But nobody needs to worry about "customization" UNTIL at which point they DECIDE to TRY to customize their Decks. That's very SMART and is like my "Crystal Heroes" (CH). You play with custom Micro Decks (12 cards) all along and you can make further customization at a later time.

blueyes1010 wrote:

Now their are alternative game modes where you can ignore affinities in deck drafting , so in other words you can use any colour cards you want, but the classic game mode will stay with the affinity rule.

Very TRUE. No need to for drafting but having it as an OPTION is GREAT. For those who want to delve deeper into the game. So "Classic" is like "Right-Out-of-the-Box" and then "Drafting" for those who want to personalize and customize their Decks... Brilliant!

Just REMEMBER that having TUPLES (3 of each card) leads to less ILLUSTRATIONS and ARTWORK and simplifies the amount of cards you need to customize. Like I said in an earlier response, having 10 God Cards and 30 Common Cards which each have 3 copies leads to only 20 Cards to illustrate and design. It's also GOOD because GAME-WISE nobody wants to WAIT AROUND for a "specific" card when you needed it 2 or 3 turns before...

So I would really recommend thinking in terms of TUPLES.

10 God Cards + 10 x 3 Common Cards = Deck of 40 Cards. Simple, clean, efficient and read for battle.

Cheers!

Sun, 06/06/2021 - 16:59

#19

blueyes1010

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well how im thinking of it is

well how im thinking of it is you will have 3 copies of the most basic cards and units, ones that dont usually have too much in terms of powers etc, then the slightly more expensive higher quality units that are still classed as common you will have 2 copies of. these are going to broaden across three colours dont forget so instead of 10x3 common cards it will be more like 3x3 basic commons from each colour that are like your meatshield style stuff then 2 copies of other units and a few just one copy of as they are more powerful.

their will still be plenty of copies, but theyll be enough flavour in their too that you dont get bored seeing to many of the same cards over and over again. The only cards you may be waiting on coming are the uniques, but you would already know what they are and what they do in advance.

Sat, 10/09/2021 - 11:53

#20

blueyes1010

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its been some time since i

its been some time since i have been on here, lots of crap happened with covid and other stuff but im pleased to say i havent given up on the game, as a matter of fact i have been able to greatly refine and simplify it as i felt it was overall a little too complex, so tweaking has been done with mechanics etc either simplifying or outright removing, and i am now much happier with where it stands. Have also made a demo set and played it with friends, minor balancing of cards is needed but otherwise everything works as it should and everyone generally enjoyed it.

currently have 2 gods that work well , looking to balance and refine the others to see which ones will fit into the game aswell.
there are 2 modes currently, one for tactical players which is normal draft with certain restrictions, then if your just feeling for a really casual chaotic gameplay their is open draft which has no limitations. trialed both and the open draft is absolute mayhem but in a fun, play a card wipe everyones board kind of way lol. normal draft is much more about card synergy and using the gods mechanics to your advantage.

Sat, 10/09/2021 - 12:03

#21

blueyes1010

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Joined: 05/30/2021

forgot to mention too their

forgot to mention too their are starter decks too though for beginners to learn the game, and decide what sort of god and deck they might enjoy most

Sat, 10/09/2021 - 16:39

#22

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Maybe you could...

blueyes1010 wrote:

Its been some time since i have been on here, lots of crap happened with covid and other stuff but im pleased to say i havent given up on the game, as a matter of fact i have been able to greatly refine and simplify it as i felt it was overall a little too complex, so tweaking has been done with mechanics etc either simplifying or outright removing, and i am now much happier with where it stands.

Sounds all like reasonable and unpredictable at the same time (What do you want we're in a Global Pandemic!) But good on you for streamlining the game... I usually do that too... I keep adding stuff until it feel like I've got enough of a "concept", then I make a prototype and trim off the excess!

blueyes1010 wrote:

Have also made a demo set and played it with friends, minor balancing of cards is needed but otherwise everything works as it should and everyone generally enjoyed it.

Also very good too... Playtesting is the ONLY way to figure out if your IDEAS as they are work or need some tweaking. Very SMART... You're doing things in the right order and the right way!

blueyes1010 wrote:

Currently have 2 gods that work well , looking to balance and refine the others to see which ones will fit into the game as well.

Ah... See here is where I see "potential". It's been a while for me too ... So I'll say this: Make GOD Expansions. Make them NEW play sets. What I mean if you have 2, 3 or 4 Gods in the "core" ... Plan to add more cards in a series for a NEW God... I don't know your format... But you seem to have Deck-Construction (like Magic) ... So a NEW God can be a whole bunch of NEW cards that mesh well with that NEW God...

Just a thought. Kudos on the progress you've made and for NOT giving up!

Sun, 10/10/2021 - 07:22

#23

blueyes1010

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yeah i havent had to

yeah i havent had to completely overhaul it luckily as a lot of mechanics that i wanted in it were already their really, it was more just trimming down the fluff.

the playtesting was fun as my friends are very competitive so they proper got into it, the main thing i wanted to see was if one of the gods was more overpowered than the other, thankfully they seemed pretty even with one winning 3 matches to 2. Their is a pretty big selection to make all kinds of combos so more playtesting will be happening.

yeah so the way im thinking of doing it, i need to explain the decks a bit first, so in normal deck play you have a 60 card deck, 40 of those are commons that you can have anything up to 3 copies of in the deck, they range from units, spells, enchantments, artefacts etc and so on. the other 20 cards are uniques which are specific only to your god that your playing.
though there are more than 20 in total for each god so again you get to pick what you want to add.
I would probably do it as a god expansion, it might contain a few new cards for the other current gods too and some more commons.
each god has a starter deck to start learning with them too.
the last card type is shrines, unlike magic where you have a health pool your opponent has to drop, in this you have to protect 3 shrines that start the game facing down. they have differing health and abilities on them that become available when your opponent flips the shrine to attack it. So a few of these cards would be in a pack to, as they are an important part of your strategy too.

Sun, 10/10/2021 - 12:23

#24

blueyes1010

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the two god decks that are

the two god decks that are nearly fleshed out are
- Alaric the arbiter of greed
- Alias the puppeteer

as you can imagine by the names Alaric is about obtaining large amounts of currency to put out powerful units and spells, but he also extorts from opponents and uses their own wealth against them

Alias on the other hand is about illusions and misdirection, tricking your opponent and causing them to defeat themselves in some instances.

their unique cards, passive and shrines heavily reflect these mechanics.
so for example Alarics passive, taxation, lets him gain coins whenever his opponent sells their cards which is an action you can do in this game. Dont have enough money for something? sell some of your cards in your hand then. But for each card you do he gains money, to balance it he must pay more to deploy cards unbowed, another mechanic of the game i wont go into detail just yet. Some of his shrines allow him to steal his opponents money or just outright bribe their units onto his side of the board.
As for unique units that only he gets , they are of a similar flavour, such as a gold hoarding dragon which steals half of your money each time it damages a shrine, or a private racket you can put on your opponents board that gradually siphons their money away each turn if they dint get rid of it

Alias has the passive smoke and mirrors, where opponents cannot look at his shrines to see what nasty surprises are lurking underneath, as some cards give you the ability to look at them. His shrines are equally nasty, quite often stealing or copying spells and units, like the shrine of mirrors which forces your opponent to match the same amount of destroyed shrines you have, and uniques ranging from dopplegangers that can copy unit abilities to shapeshifting assassins that become a strong unique unit that they kill, you can even introduce a little chaos with skill cards like interfere where you bow all their unbowed cards and vice versa, or misdirect where you can swap unrevealed shrines with each other for some sort of big play setup.

thats what their is so far but i have other gods that will be ready after a bit of refining and balancing

Mon, 10/11/2021 - 02:24

#25

questccg

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The way you explain them makes it sound really compelling...

I guess we all "struggle" with making each of our games "compelling". It seems like you've got that aspect narrowed down pretty decently! (LOL) I've never really looked at a card game in that manner. I mean sure I've got a couple card games in the works, but in a "much" different way...

For one there is "QuestAC v2.0" (QACv2) ... And I wanted to preserve the "set collection" mechanic ... But improve upon it! Make it less about collecting the "right" cards and more about "building an engine" and the whole "completing quests". In a way it is in an advanced state (design and the concept), yet in another way, many cards need to be designed and there is a lot of work that remains. However I am confident that with some more physical work and "making things a reality"... This design has promise.

Another one is "Monster Keep" (MK) ... I wanted something "mathematical" for those who like "solving problems" and equations ... To sort of fuse that with Monsters which allow for many sort of Decks (Pre-defined) that allow interesting dynamics and interplay. For one, I designed a "range" mechanic which means that only cards in the SAME "range" can battle each other. Why? Because I didn't want ALL the cards to be able to battle each other... It just would be too chaotic and not in the spirit of what I wanted to "design". The are different Deck Strategies too... But not like your game. You only get to play with fifteen (15) cards and some can be doubles or triples of a specific "Monster". Overall by using certain "Monsters" your Deck has a sort of "play" strategy and different plays from different decks compete against each other.

Why am I sharing this? Maybe to encourage you to continue with YOUR design... I just presented two (2) of mine as examples of what I am trying to make "interesting" and stand-out. I think you are doing a good job in making the Decks for your "Gods" synergistic and have a certain feel to how each player can play his "game".

Because that's what it seems to me: you want a specific type of PLAY STYLE to go along with the Deck and "Gods". And I think that is very cool. One thing that I can suggest is ... Go with a PRE-BUILT Deck format. Like buy a pack of 60 cards and that is for one specific "God"! Why? Because this makes it more "retailable". Sure for experts they can maybe "tweak" Decks and combine cards from other "Gods". But just to be able to PLAY out-of-the-box will help in the "adoption" aspect.

Meaning out-of-the-box means less about being a MASTER of the game ... To just about anyone picking "God" and playing his/her Deck. Again this is just a suggestion because I'm in the thick of figuring out different formats and how to make a game EASILY playable.

Anyways keep up the good work. You seem to be progressing naturally!

Cheers.

Note #1: I just wanted to add ... That IF you do create Decks for your "Gods" to think a bit about doubles and triples of cards and that can help you reduce the AMOUNT of things that you need to design. Having the right cards at the right time can be important... And as you know even with "Magic: the Gathering" (MtG) players add doubles and triples to help with getting the cards that you need at the right time.

So that can definitely help in reducing the quantity of cards that you need to design per "God".

Another more "DYNAMIC" concept would be that each "God" has a series of ELEMENTS and you can have different CARD MAXIMUMS for each element.

For example: "Yellow = Gold" and Alaric has a ceiling of "4". Means each "Yellow" card you can have a maximum of "4" instances. But in the case for "Green = Flora" Alaric has a ceiling of "2". This means that you can only have at most "2" instances of any green cards in a deck.

This would ADD a bunch of "soft" restrictions which also could impact the play style of a "God" and his Deck.

Anyhow something to think about. This DYNAMIC limitation I have never seen before... So this could be something UNIQUE that you could employ for further versatility...

Note #2: And going along with a "Pokemon" link ... Here is the Pokemon RPS system of categories:

The idea I am suggesting... Is that you have ALL kinds of ELEMENTS. And you create SYNERGY by giving each "God" a series of ELEMENTS + Maximums.

What this means is that one "God" may be able to have up to "4" Purple Cards while another "God" is allowed "0" Purple Cards... See what I mean?

You can CONTROL how each "God" is defined by these "ELEMENTS" and allow further customization based on them.

Again just some ideas that I had to share with you!

Mon, 10/11/2021 - 07:32

#26

blueyes1010

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i like to think so haha, i

i like to think so haha, i guess i havent really explained the story for it, its pretty simple really i made a fictional universe with its own pantheon of gods and theyre having a tournament to see who is the best god essentially, which is why you have to guard your shrines etc as they are a source of your power.

i see interesting, does it work like in a way that you get these strong quest cards that you put into play if you complete a series of tasks or deploy certain units etc?

i see so that one almost has like a chess like method to it with certain cards only being able to fight in spots. are you going to put things it that will move and change the boardstate?

yeah i would say specific playstyles for each god, however i would say its more like their passive is the engine of their main mechanics, but you can create multiple decks within each god later down the line that make it fully possible to use a few different strategies within each god, such as card draw, c and c, etc

so the way decks are currently set up in normal draft play, you havw 60 cards, 40 are commons, commons are available to everyone, you can have up to 3 of each copy in your deck of commons and they range from many things like spells , units , artefacts, all with your general abilities like card draw, currency building, card discarding, damaging and defending and so on. you can put whatever you want in once youve learnt past the starter deck. you could go more unit heavy or spells, or just a balance of different types. Where it gets a little more unique is the uniques, see they are specific only to one god, every god has their own. And they are designed specifically to synergise with that gods mechanics.
A good example gods that havent been completed yet Raamaphet ancient truth seeker, is a god of wisdom and knowledge, as such their uniques embody heavily on spells and skills called insights that only they get, aswell as tome and grimoire based artefacts.
On the other hand another god known as Behematus the colossal one, who is a god of beasts and primal rage, his uniques give more access to colossal creatures that will just stomp your enemy.
So the uniques are very tailored to the gods, but their are more than 20 to choose from so their is still customization when you want to,shrines are also tailored to their specific god which makes sense as having a shrine of bestial rage wouldnt fit if it were being used by a god of wealth, whereas commons are completely freeform to build how you want, they are available to everyone so your opponent could have some of the same cards as you, whereas in normal draft they can never have the same uniques as you.
in free draft mode they can as anyone can draft anything at all in that mode.

Ive seen this element style design before in other games and although its neat idea have to say i believe it would overly complicate my game for a few reasons ill explain.
firstly their is no coloured mana or elements as such in this game, sure cards are coloured such as uniques for eacch god have a special colour to identify them more easily and commons have colour patterns matching their type like undead = black , nature = green etc. buts its mostly just visual its not mechanical for this game. Theirs only one currency, gold.

with the way its setup that everyone drafts from the commons together but then when they hit the uniques its their own and no one elses, i think that already gives enough scope to give your god and its deck its own identity. I wanted to keep that aspect as simple as possible as from my own experience of playing drafting games, the drafting although is important can be tedious if you have too many restrictions and requirements on things, you dont really want to have to overthink your deck, you want to be able to combo some cool cards in together, which is why the only restrictions their are is card type and amount allowed of it.
even within both common and unique cards theirs plenty of types, all card types are units, structures, artefacts, spells, skills, enchantments, hexs and equipment. So you could build only spells or only units etc its your choice, doesnt mean itll be very effective mind you lol but still the choice is there, and i want to keep that their as it will enable people to come up with all kinds of fun decks to play.
I think restricting too much would actually make it less dynamic personally.
Which is why i have been working a lot on making it balanced as possible while keeping it this way.
Fortunately it seems to work as the biggest game changing cards no surprise are the uniques but they are also the most expensive and you cant duplicate them, so the balancing restrictions i feel are already in place.
so yes these cards hit like a freightrain but you only have 20 of them and so do your opponents

Wed, 10/13/2021 - 22:18

#27

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Watch out for your God Uniqueness with other Card Games!

blueyes1010 wrote:

I see interesting, does it work like in a way that you get these strong quest cards that you put into play if you complete a series of tasks or deploy certain units etc?

The way it works is cards (Fragments) require Income when you put them into your Active Quest. The amount varies from 1 to 9 Income. You start with 3 Income per turn in your Treasury (as the minimum) which allows you to play cards from 1 to 3 Income.

When you COMPLETE a quest (15, 20 and 25 Victory Points) all the Fragments get put into your Treasury. So there is a BALANCE between wanting to COMPLETE Quests FAST and to have more Income (because each Fragment is ONLY worth +1 Income). This means each card is worth +1 Income when you complete the Quest.

So if you complete a quest with only 3 Fragments, your Income remains at 3... That's one aspect of the Engine Building I was talking about.

blueyes1010 wrote:

I see so that one almost has like a chess like method to it with certain cards only being able to fight in spots. are you going to put things it that will move and change the boardstate?

For Monster Keep there is no Board. Only five (5) cards that you may put into the Play Area. That's it. All you get is 5 out of 15 cards you can play. There is an order for the "Equation", on the 1st Round you play 3 cards Hidden, then Reveal and lastly Battle, then the 2nd Round you only play 2 cards (Hidden Again, then Reveal and Battle again). The 3rd Round is reserved for replacing lost Monsters in your Equation (who died during either of the Battle rounds).

blueyes1010 wrote:

On the other hand another god known as Behematus the colossal one, who is a god of beasts and primal rage, his uniques give more access to colossal creatures that will just stomp your enemy.

Try to avoid Play Styles similar to Magic. Green is Big Creatures (in this particular case). Just a suggestion.

blueyes1010 wrote:

Fortunately it seems to work as the biggest game changing cards no surprise are the uniques but they are also the most expensive and you cant duplicate them, so the balancing restrictions I feel are already in place. So yes these cards hit like a freight-train but you only have 20 of them and so do your opponents

This is very good. Different but makes sense. That sounds really fair that 20 cards are unique and 40 cards are common. And you can have at most 3 of each... You may want to consider 4 of each which means at the lowest you have only 10 distinct cards (x4 = 40!) Just better with the MATH in your game. It's just an idea for you to explore further...

"Quest v2" has also a limit of 3 of any card. But you have a Deck of 60 cards (so 60 / 3 = 20 cards!) That math works out too! Notice that I had the idea of also forcing some cards to be unique (with a Star). But I think that ATM I will not use this restriction... I don't think the game needs it now that I re-organized one of the Actions (Shuffle). Now you don't rely on "Shuffle Cards/Fragments", you can Shuffle on ANY card with ANY Hero. The cost (in Income) varies but is at most 3 Income...

I too needed a way OUT to ensure that players would not get BLOCKED by their opponent. It seemed too counter-intuitive that the opponent plays a Fragment which you CANNOT resolve with ANY of your Engine's Fragments.

Like if you are Yellow Dominant (Thieves and Assassins) and the opponent requires you to play a Purple Hero (Paladin or Knight) ... It would just SUCK if there is NOTHING you can do with YOUR Deck... To produce a Purple Hero (almost like getting mana screwed!)

So now you can Shuffle any Hero to another class at the cost of Income. In a way it is merely a loss of a turn or two... Can impact the game obviously but at least nobody is "blocked" and can do nothing about it.

This was a very fortunate ADVANCEMENT in the design making it more worthy of more playtesting (even if the game is only in a Conceptual stage of Design)...

Fri, 10/15/2021 - 20:44

#28

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Something to consider

blueyes1010 wrote:

the two god decks that are nearly fleshed out are
- Alaric the arbiter of greed
- Alias the puppeteer

as you can imagine by the names Alaric is about obtaining large amounts of currency to put out powerful units and spells, but he also extorts from opponents and uses their own wealth against them

Alias on the other hand is about illusions and misdirection, tricking your opponent and causing them to defeat themselves in some instances.

These two (2) Gods sound good. But I think those should be "tentative" names. Both starting with a "A" is not great.

For the Puppeteer, I would go with "Jackson", the Puppeteer. How do I get this is from "Son of Jack" and "Jack" being Jack of all trades... A little how the puppet master (Jackson) would be the opposite of his Father. Again just some ideas, I'm just letting my better half give me some suggestions on how to improve this "Puppet-Master"'s name and backstory...

"Alaric", the Arbiter of Greed is perfect now that you have a "A" God and a "J" God. That's another idea that you could have at most 26 Gods in your game. Each one starting with a different letter of the Alphabet. Again something for you to contemplate more...

Again these are just ideas for you to consider. In the end it's YOUR design and you'll figure out how to best use, adapt, re-think, re-purpose or ignore these ideas...

Cheers... and do work on making these Gods "unique"!

Note #1: Another tough name would be "Xavier" a French God who uses Roses and Potions to seduce and intoxicate his opponents. Could be a cool God for the "girls"! We always talk about gender equality and non-racial content (Asian, Indian, African, American-Indian, etc.) That also can help you flesh out your 26 gods... Hehehe! We actually did this with our Premium Roles: there is an Indian Female, an Asian Male, an Afro-American Female, etc.

Another way of thinking and can give you MORE inspiration towards the names of the 26 Gods and then you can flesh in their BIOS and move on from there...

Sat, 10/16/2021 - 18:23

#29

questccg

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Joined: 04/16/2011

Inspire yourself by everything...

So far you've convinced me that you are focusing on "Medieval Fantasy". Which is okay but far too common. BUT ...

What if you focus on Pulp Fiction?

Not the movie with John Travolta... Pulp Fiction is usually a work of "Fiction" which combines different realities or multiple sources of Fiction into one single novel (and story).

So you have Gods... What if some could be Animal Gods (for example). Or a few Robotic Gods (another example). Things that go BEYOND "Medieval Fantasy" and make your game's theme a PULP!

I'm on this subject of Pulp Fiction because I just re-discovered a Book series of six (6) books that were written by different authors but the synopsis of each book was written by another Author. Just ordered on Amazon and awaiting their delivery...

Anyhow what Pulp Fiction (or a PULP) is bringing different realities together to make another work of Fiction. Maybe you could have different REALMS from which the "Gods" come from... A distinct realm of some Pulp Universe that is somehow interconnected

26 Gods is a lot... You'll need to sub-categorize and then flesh-out the Gods in the various realms, etc. Again these are just some thoughts and ideas. Feel free to use, adapt, re-think, re-purpose or ignore them!

Cheers!

Sat, 10/16/2021 - 19:39

#30

questccg

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